Recommend A Condenser

Tech talk about audio recording and live stage production.
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Postby macrae11 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:15 am

Cubical wrote:DAmn, I was gonna suggest mics like the AKG C1000S that I use. Gamblor, you have heard the quality of that mic first hand and it is ruggeed as hell. I recommed it just because I use it as the only overhead for my drum kit. Wicked response from that microphone


The AKG C1000's are great little mics but I think I would pick them up as filler mics after another solid stereo pair. My only reason for suggesting that is that in my experience they're not super flat, which makes them sound great on certain applications, but a little less flexible for universal use, which I think is what the OP is going for.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:48 am

macrae11 wrote:
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I just tried the MC012 witht he Red capsule for FOK (front of kick) and it completely blew me away.

Just so you're up on your acronyms Matt, FOK usually (to me at least) refers to front of kit not front of kick. I would call that "Kick Out".

Man, good thing you are around here. You are essential to my learning. I've always called it "kick-out" but I thought that maybe I was supposed to FOK, so I got confused as I've never heard "front of kit". I learn so much from you all the time...

macrae11 wrote:So when you were up last we used the MC012 as FOK and the 414 as Kick Out. For me a FOK mic is usually anywhere from 18"-40" off the floor anywhere from 4'-10' away from the front edge of the kick drum. Kind of a close room mic that captures the overall sound of the kit. I never use one at Fluid because the room is so live, it doesn't fit as well in the mix unless the kit was severely baffled/gobo'd. I would usually use a stereo pair of room mics a similar distance away as a more traditional "room" sound.

In my room where things are a bit tighter, I can get away with a FOK mic, but if I want a "room" sound I have to go quite a bit farther away, and could never get a huge sound like in your room.

Makes good sense to me. I'm going to make all of the options possible to you. It'll be the best of Fluid Audio and Outreach.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:56 am

macrae11 wrote:
Cubical wrote:DAmn, I was gonna suggest mics like the AKG C1000S that I use. Gamblor, you have heard the quality of that mic first hand and it is ruggeed as hell. I recommed it just because I use it as the only overhead for my drum kit. Wicked response from that microphone


The AKG C1000's are great little mics but I think I would pick them up as filler mics after another solid stereo pair. My only reason for suggesting that is that in my experience they're not super flat, which makes them sound great on certain applications, but a little less flexible for universal use, which I think is what the OP is going for.


Yeah I agree with that. We sold our C1000s a while back, and I haven't once said to myself... "Gee I wish I still had those." The 4050s on the other hand get used all the time. But the C1000s would be handy to me now for live OH use though. I'm not saying they are bad microphones. I just wouldn't put them in the same league as the 4050s.
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Postby gamblor » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:43 am

anybody know anything about the akg c4000b? i was all geared up to get my at4050's but then this little sucker came up on locals for $400. good bang for the buck? y/n

http://media.locals.ca/localsconf/viewt ... 5&t=172100
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:01 pm

That particular C4000 is without case and pop filter.

They are OK mics, but I would take a 4050 over it any day.

I actually made an offer of $350 on that mic when I saw this:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gearslut ... -gone.html

He's been trying to sell that mic for a while now. He wouldn't take my offer. He's got ads all over the net about it. The fact that he can't unload it says something about the fate of newer AKG product.
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Postby macrae11 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:43 pm

I really don't like that mic.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:48 pm

macrae11 wrote:I really don't like that mic.
A ton of that new AKG product is super overpriced which is why guys that spend decent money buying it new don't understand why they can't get anywhere near what they want for them used.

These once great mic manufacturers who sold their soul to the project studio market hurt their cred big time in the last 20 years. Canadian "list" on the C4000b is $999.00. Tell me that's not over optimistic.
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Postby gamblor » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:58 pm

good to know! might as well throw down the extra money on the 4050's if it's really that much better.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:27 pm

gamblor wrote:good to know! might as well throw down the extra money on the 4050's if it's really that much better.

The 4050 is a solid workhorse microphone. You'l probably never want to sell them, they will always have a use.
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Postby macrae11 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:33 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:I really don't like that mic.
A ton of that new AKG product is super overpriced which is why guys that spend decent money buying it new don't understand why they can't get anywhere near what they want for them used.

These once great mic manufacturers who sold their soul to the project studio market hurt their cred big time in the last 20 years. Canadian "list" on the C4000b is $999.00. Tell me that's not over optimistic.


Wow I had no idea they were that expensive. I would pay maybe $200 for one if I was in need of some door stops.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:25 pm

macrae11 wrote:Wow I had no idea they were that expensive. I would pay maybe $200 for one if I was in need of some door stops.

So... Tell us how you really feel.
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Postby gamblor » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:33 pm

am i ever glad i have you folks to turn to for gear advice! i promise that once i become a guru i'll chip in too.

as of now, all i know is that RUSH sounds pretty good. am i right?
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Postby macrae11 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:51 pm

You are correct.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:25 pm

Indeed! Great soundtrack. I love Clapton.

Image
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Postby Christian LeBlanc » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:28 pm

Matt! I don't think that's what he meant! Duh!

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There.
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Postby macrae11 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:31 pm

Can' we all just be right?
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:47 pm

macrae11 wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:I really don't like that mic.
A ton of that new AKG product is super overpriced which is why guys that spend decent money buying it new don't understand why they can't get anywhere near what they want for them used.

These once great mic manufacturers who sold their soul to the project studio market hurt their cred big time in the last 20 years. Canadian "list" on the C4000b is $999.00. Tell me that's not over optimistic.


Wow I had no idea they were that expensive. I would pay maybe $200 for one if I was in need of some door stops.
OK, now I'm curious. I haven't much experience with these so I have to ask what about them is so bad? Build quality, or just lack of any usefulness from a sound perspective? I was thinking about picking it up if it for $350, but now you've got me wondering even at that price...

I know most newer AKGs for me either feel very toy like and have some shaky build issues, or sound like mics half or less their price range. Entirely not what I remember from when I was starting out in the 80s with 414s, 451/452s, C460s, C535s as well as D12Es. I even liked D330s on vocals.

I haven't tracked anything with a C4000, but I have had them on stage before with folks carrying them in their kit and they seemed to work in those situations. I don't remember them feeling or sounding like junk. With my limited examples I did find it scads better than the C3000, but perhaps that's another conversation altogether.

Maybe years ago, companies like AKG could get away with models like this, but now there are just too many better options for the same money, and the younger guys don't have the attraction to the name that AKG once had.
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Postby macrae11 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:28 pm

Well I'm being a little over the top. It certainly is better than the C3000, of which $200 for a doorstop is probably a more accurate description. The build quality is average, but it still sounds like a C3000 just with a bit less suck.

I only used it on a couple of sessions, but really disliked it so never got it again. It's just dark and tubby with no real redeeming features. Not bad per se, just not in any way good, at least on the sources I tried it on. A 4050 is 5 times the mic, and an old 414 10 times. I'd take a 57 over the C4000 and not think twice.


I've still got a few D330's that I use for scratch vocals. Very decent mic, and very flexible with the onboard EQ options.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:00 pm

Slightly off topic but not too far off... We just picked up an A-T 4054 for dirt cheap (Alain's allergic to full price anything.) I haven't tried it yet but people say it's essentially the 4050 in a handheld mic, based on the fact the capsule was based on the 4050 capsule.

Looks like I have a new mic for the Mary Beth live vocal mic test...

Brochure

Review

Since this mic is discontinued though, I think it was replaced by this:

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/6c15480b96d121b7/index.html
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Postby gamblor » Wed May 12, 2010 1:03 pm

final result!!!

i had to roll back my mic budget by a bit, so i decided to purchase a matched pair of oktava mk-012's. i used these last night both as drum overheads and on a bass cab and i am SUPER happy with the quality of these. great high-range definition without sounding "tinny". very true sounding microphones.

my other recent purchases:

-behringer b2031a monitors
-sennheiser 421
-2 shure sm 57's
-shure unidyne
-ass-loads of stands and cables (main reason for rolling back my mic budget)
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed May 12, 2010 1:14 pm

Neat... We're actually going to be modding our mk-012 very soon, you should bring yours in and we'll A-B them!
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed May 12, 2010 1:14 pm

gamblor wrote:-ass-loads of stands and cables (main reason for rolling back my mic budget)
Yes... Those necessities of life can really ruin a plan.

Nice choices there. Good workhorse mics that will last a long time.

Take care of that 421 clip though...
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed May 12, 2010 1:17 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:Take care of that 421 clip though...

So should Fluid Audio design a locking clip for the 421? Yes, I believe we should. I'll put it on the list of shop projects. There's gotta be a way to improve that design.
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Postby gamblor » Wed May 12, 2010 2:50 pm

i find it funny that they've never bothered to change the design of that clip after all these years of having them fail.

they must have a side business that manufactures electrical tape.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed May 12, 2010 4:52 pm

Even if they changed nothing but the clip mount, you'd have a bunch of turkeys talking about how the "old" ones with the "original" clip sound better... :roll:
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