Recommend A Condenser

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Recommend A Condenser

Postby gamblor » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:10 am

Hi. I’m new-ish to recording and I’m looking for some good all-around workhorse condenser mics. Ideally, I’d like to purchase 2 of the same kind to provide me with a lot of flexibility for what I’ll be doing. I would like ones that have a very full sound when used as standalone drum overheads, as it would be nice to record jam sessions without having to use a million tracks just to capture a decent drum sound. It would also be nice to have something that can pick up good sound from a guitar amp at a distance. Of course, when we are putting together our actual “album” recordings, I’d like to turn to these to provide the drums with a nice body so that we don’t have to add much to the mix from the individual drum mics. I love a roomy sound, so I think I’m headed in the right direction by throwing some cash at high quality condensers.

Does it sound like I’m on the right track here? What are some recommendations of microphones to purchase?
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Postby gamblor » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:00 pm

here's a couple i've been looking at. these seem tempting cause i could pop one over the drum kit or just set it in the middle of the room

http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/ ... 13_content

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %26otn%3D2
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:33 pm

First, what's your budget?

Second, buying a "pair" is always a good idea.
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Postby macrae11 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:45 pm

Just to be clear both of those mics are ribbon mics, not condensers. Not that there's anything wrong with that, ribbons make great all around mics. The two mics you've linked, I believe are actually the exact same mic. Shure recently bought the mic division of Crowley and Tripp, and re-badged them under their own name. I don't know how many internal changes they've made to them, nor have I heard either version. Also being that they're ribbons they have a figure 8 polar pattern, which could be good or bad for jam session depending on how savvy you are at utilizing they're null points.

What's your budget? For roughly the price of the mics you listed, there are a ton of great mics to choose from. Off the top of my head: Shure KSM32, Shure KSM44, Shure KSM141 AKG 414, Neumann TLM103, Neumann TLM102, Neumann BCM104, Neumann KM184, Bock 195, Mojave MA200, Blue Blueberry, Audio Technica 4047, Audio Technica 4050, Audio Technica 4060, Rode K2 and a whole variety of others.

I've used quite a few of these, and most of them should do what you need.
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Postby Butler » Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:45 pm

I've been using Audio Technica AT-3035's for years in many different situations... recording concerts, acoustic guitar, drum kit overhead's, guitar amps...

I picked up a used pair off eBay for $225 shipped about 4 years ago. Brand new list is about $350-400 for one I think?

Either way, I love them, they always do what I need them to.

http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired ... index.html
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Postby gamblor » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:08 pm

macrae11 wrote:Just to be clear both of those mics are ribbon mics, not condensers. Not that there's anything wrong with that, ribbons make great all around mics. The two mics you've linked, I believe are actually the exact same mic. Shure recently bought the mic division of Crowley and Tripp, and re-badged them under their own name. I don't know how many internal changes they've made to them, nor have I heard either version. Also being that they're ribbons they have a figure 8 polar pattern, which could be good or bad for jam session depending on how savvy you are at utilizing they're null points.

What's your budget? For roughly the price of the mics you listed, there are a ton of great mics to choose from. Off the top of my head: Shure KSM32, Shure KSM44, Shure KSM141 AKG 414, Neumann TLM103, Neumann TLM102, Neumann BCM104, Neumann KM184, Bock 195, Mojave MA200, Blue Blueberry, Audio Technica 4047, Audio Technica 4050, Audio Technica 4060, Rode K2 and a whole variety of others.

I've used quite a few of these, and most of them should do what you need.


Looks like I've got a lot more review reading to do. Thanks! I suppose my budget for both mics (or a single dual-voice) would be 1000 or under. I'm fairly new to the world of mics, so thanks for pointing out the difference with the ones I listed.

Butler, had you done recordings of the Fussy Part a few years back with those mics?
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Postby Butler » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:20 pm

gamblor wrote:Butler, had you done recordings of the Fussy Part a few years back with those mics?


If you mean live Fussy Part shows, then yes... here's some shows I taped with these mics.... there are players on the page to listen.

http://www.archive.org/details/fussypar ... 35s.flac16

http://www.archive.org/details/blindmel ... -26.flac16

http://www.archive.org/details/dtb2008-09-11.flac16
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Postby macrae11 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:11 pm

If you're looking for >$1000 per pair, then that changes some things. Several of the ones I listed are $1000 for a single. For mics around $500 or less:

Shure KSM32, Shure KSM141 AKG 214, Mojave MA201, Audio Technica 4050, Audio Technica 4051, Rode K2, Rode NT2A, or used versions of any of the previous ones might fall into that category.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:09 pm

I agree with Butler about the 3035 being a great bang for the buck. They are however discontinued and I think most dealers have cleared the "30" series stock. If not, grab them up, and I mean anyone looking for a great budget all purpose condenser with great build quality.

That being said, it looks like gamblor is looking in a slightly higher budget range so I would lean more towards most of MacRae's suggestions.

One thing that hasn't come up so far is, are you looking for features such as variable patterns, high pass filters, and pads, or will just a straight cardioid with no features cut it? You need to think about all that when considering options.

Unlike when I was starting out, there are literally hundreds of great options out there for similar microphones in similar price ranges.
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Postby gamblor » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:00 pm

christ. there's a hell of a lot out there to choose from isn't there? the at4050 is looking like a front runner in the group listed here. once i buy i'll let ya's all know what i went with. thanks for all the advice!
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Feb 16, 2010 6:19 pm

gamblor wrote:christ. there's a hell of a lot out there to choose from isn't there? the at4050 is looking like a front runner in the group listed here. once i buy i'll let ya's all know what i went with. thanks for all the advice!
IMO the 4050 is a great all purpose mic. I consider it a much underrated choice. A pair of those would be a nice starting point to building a great kit of mics.
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Postby macrae11 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:08 pm

4050's are great all arounders, really can't go wrong with them. Quite neutral being as they're tranformerless, and extra flexibile since it's got three polar patterns, cardiod, figure 8, and omni. I love it for drum overheads, room mics, Bass cabs, acoustic guitar, and some vocals. They would probably be great on toms, but I've never tried them there.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:47 pm

AT's prices are so low these days they've got a lot of product that is hard to beat for value as well.
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Postby gamblor » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:23 am

anybody have experience with the octava mk-012 ?
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:21 am

gamblor wrote:anybody have experience with the octava mk-012 ?

Yessum. We have one and we put this on it. I've never really used it much, Andrew tried it out as a room mic on his last session though.
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Postby macrae11 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:46 am

Yeah it's a nice little mic, I haven't actually used it too much. As Matt was saying we did use it last week as a FOK mic. I haven't gone back to listen to the tracks, but I was happy with it at the time. It was with a different capsule though, so not much of a comparison. I can't really remember anything jumping out at me from the few times I've used it. The stock clips are not great though.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:04 am

Yeah, the Red capsule was on it. Oh and BTW congratulations on your 1000th post!
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Postby macrae11 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:53 am

Wow it flew by me and I didn't even notice. We'll have to have a party or something. It'll only take me a year and a half after Thom stopped posting to surpass him. RIP. :-)
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Postby gamblor » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:11 am

ok. i've pretty much decided on a pair of at 4050's. once my tax return comes in, i'll be picking up those and a pair of these suckers.

no more cad pro drum mics and multimedia speakers for me!
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Postby macrae11 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:48 am

That looks like a good start. Welcome to the world of never ending gear purchasing.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:57 am

That's a great decision. We have a pair of 4050s and people (read:Andrew) are always borrowing them. You got yourself some good workhorse mics that will serve you well. The only thing I don't like about them is that the shockmount doesn't seem built strong enough for the weight of the 4050s. Makes it a pain when setting them up for overheads on drums. Mind you we've had ours for probably 10 years, so maybe they've improved on that since.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:29 pm

I have always thought that AT shock mounts leave a lot to be desired, but I have to admit that in spite of sketchy feelings, they have never let me down in practice.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:40 pm

Drumwaiter wrote:
gamblor wrote:anybody have experience with the octava mk-012 ?

Yessum. We have one and we put this on it. I've never really used it much, Andrew tried it out as a room mic on his last session though.


I just tried the MC012 witht he Red capsule for FOK (front of kick) and it completely blew me away.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:I have always thought that AT shock mounts leave a lot to be desired, but I have to admit that in spite of sketchy feelings, they have never let me down in practice.

I finally took the time this morning at work and replaced the elastic bands in our AT8441s. The new elastic bands are far more heavy duty and the mics barely move in the shock mounts now no matter what the orientation of the microphone is.

See Andrew I'm making your life better one project at a time. The devil's in the detail... 8-)
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Postby Cubical » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:28 am

DAmn, I was gonna suggest mics like the AKG C1000S that I use. Gamblor, you have heard the quality of that mic first hand and it is ruggeed as hell. I recommed it just because I use it as the only overhead for my drum kit. Wicked response from that microphone
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Postby macrae11 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:08 am

Drumwaiter wrote:
I just tried the MC012 witht he Red capsule for FOK (front of kick) and it completely blew me away.



Just so you're up on your acronyms Matt, FOK usually (to me at least) refers to front of kit not front of kick. I would call that "Kick Out". So when you were up last we used the MC012 as FOK and the 414 as Kick Out. For me a FOK mic is usually anywhere from 18"-40" off the floor anywhere from 4'-10' away from the front edge of the kick drum. Kind of a close room mic that captures the overall sound of the kit. I never use one at Fluid because the room is so live, it doesn't fit as well in the mix unless the kit was severely baffled/gobo'd. I would usually use a stereo pair of room mics a similar distance away as a more traditional "room" sound.

In my room where things are a bit tighter, I can get away with a FOK mic, but if I want a "room" sound I have to go quite a bit farther away, and could never get a huge sound like in your room.
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