"60's" Drum Sound

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"60's" Drum Sound

Postby gamblor » Wed Jun 09, 2010 11:04 am

Anybody ever explore how to achieve the drum sound you hear on most recordings from mid to late 60’s? (Early King Crimson, the Beatles, etc.)

From what I understand, very few microphones were used to capture those kits. What I want to know is how such a concise and dry snare and tom sound was generated on those recordings? Is there any way to mimic that using modern technology?
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Re: "60's" Drum Sound

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:27 pm

gamblor wrote:Anybody ever explore how to achieve the drum sound you hear on most recordings from mid to late 60’s? (Early King Crimson, the Beatles, etc.)
The tuning and drum setups of the day have a lot to do with the sound associated with it. Not only are drums, heads and cymbals mostly not made the same as then, but drummers preferences have changed as well.

gamblor wrote:From what I understand, very few microphones were used to capture those kits. What I want to know is how such a concise and dry snare and tom sound was generated on those recordings? Is there any way to mimic that using modern technology?
Very few microphones may have been used, but they were of the highest quality by today's standards.

Yes you can "mimic" those types of recordings, but there isn't any one way to do it, anymore than there was one way of how it was done in the day. As I have mentioned, the drums, cymbals, players and rooms have as much to do with that sound as everything else. This is never what people want to hear, but it is the truth.

I always associate European (especially UK) recordings having a specific drum sound from that period, as opposed to just the '60s having one drum sound. The drums were tuned higher and more open, the rooms were big and lively, and the drummers played with a style that IMO was unique.

Unless you have access to a large enough space that allows the drums to speak well, you will be limited to how close you will get to "that sound". Most of us don't have that kind of space at our regular disposal. Fluid's big room is probably appropriate, although I haven't tracked anything there myself.

The final word is, read about as many things as you can regarding the time period and who was there, and then experiment your butt off with what you have or can get your hands on. If you haven't tried it, you'll be amazed with how full a sound you can get with an appropriate, properly placed single overhead mic, with a second appropriate mic to pick up some bass drum definition. Mic choice and position are crucial.

Too many recordists don't believe that rooms are as important as everything else, but I'll tell you if I tracked a kit with an identical setup in my room at home, and the stage space at Imperial Theatre, you'd be knocked on your butt how big the difference would be. This is of course assuming I wasn't trying to super close mic and isolate the drums in the setup.

Try stuff out, and most importantly, have fun. Of course, if you have any more specific questions, ask away.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Postby clinton » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:20 pm

good point on the tuning Malcolm. Tune 'em high Alex. Drummers used to worry more about tone and the resonance than they did the attack.

Also, stick to single ply heads. White coated ambassadors are probably a safe bet.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:35 pm

I agree with pretty much everythign so far. Except for Remo Ambassadors. Evans has some pretty good replacements for those.

This August I'm going to be doing a bunch of experimenting in our big live room with many different drums sets and mic placements. If you want Alex, you can come by and we can try some stuff out in that style. I have a '71 Ludwig kit that I have set up pretty close to what Malcolm is describing. If you 're interested, I think it could be fun. I'd also like to invite Malcolm and Clinton. It would be a science project.
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Postby clinton » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:57 pm

I'd be into that man, sounds fun.

I must say though, you're 100% wrong about Remo White Coated Ambassadors. For my money, those are the best heads around. I like Evans heads a lot too, don't get me wrong, just saying that for the vintage vibe, you can't beat (pun!) a Remo.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:23 pm

clinton wrote:I'd be into that man, sounds fun.

I must say though, you're 100% wrong about Remo White Coated Ambassadors. For my money, those are the best heads around. I like Evans heads a lot too, don't get me wrong, just saying that for the vintage vibe, you can't beat (pun!) a Remo.


I'm willing to do the test in August. I'll provide the heads. If you're right, then I'll eat my shorts (words). Also I'm just trying to stir shit, because you and I have discussed this before...lol
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Postby gamblor » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:38 pm

Drumwaiter wrote:
clinton wrote:I'd be into that man, sounds fun.

I must say though, you're 100% wrong about Remo White Coated Ambassadors. For my money, those are the best heads around. I like Evans heads a lot too, don't get me wrong, just saying that for the vintage vibe, you can't beat (pun!) a Remo.


I'm willing to do the test in August. I'll provide the heads. If you're right, then I'll eat my shorts (words). Also I'm just trying to stir shit, because you and I have discussed this before...lol


which kind does RUSH use?
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 10, 2010 4:50 pm

gamblor wrote:
Drumwaiter wrote:
clinton wrote:I'd be into that man, sounds fun.

I must say though, you're 100% wrong about Remo White Coated Ambassadors. For my money, those are the best heads around. I like Evans heads a lot too, don't get me wrong, just saying that for the vintage vibe, you can't beat (pun!) a Remo.


I'm willing to do the test in August. I'll provide the heads. If you're right, then I'll eat my shorts (words). Also I'm just trying to stir shit, because you and I have discussed this before...lol


which kind does RUSH use?


If Rush were a band from the 60s, they'd use Remo Ambassadors probably.
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Postby gamblor » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:08 am

i'd love to come to this drum shootout by the way. i think this would be a terrific learning experience for me.

thank you for all the helpful comments in this thread by the way. can't wait to do some more experimenting with drum sounds in the near future.

matt, we'll need to get in touch about putting some new skins on my kit some time soon.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:10 am

gamblor wrote:matt, we'll need to get in touch about putting some new skins on my kit some time soon.


Next week I'm doing some maintenance on my kits. What size drums have you got?
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Postby gamblor » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:22 am

14" Snare

12,14,& 16 toms

22" kick

just have the stock head that came with it. it's a "custom classic" kit i got used for cheap. surprisingly good tones for the price.

apparently they're made in the same factory as gretsch kits if that means anything. buddy who sold it to me played it out as if it were a gretsch, which i naively fell for. either way, she sounds gnarley.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:27 am

gamblor wrote:12,14,& 16 toms


You sure? Seems like an odd config for a "set".
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Postby gamblor » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:32 am

i'll take a measuring tape to it when i get home, but i'm quite sure that's right. she's just little.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:37 am

Typical packages these days are 10, 12, 14 or 10, 12, 16. Years back 12, 13, 16 were also popular.

12, 14, 16 is not impossible per se, but it would be an odd configuration.
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Postby dylanger » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:15 pm

I was watching a video that compared different micing techniques for drums and I was really amazed by how great of a drum sound they got with one LDC in front of the kit.

There's a movie that came out last year called this might get loud. It's a documentary about three guitar players. Jimmy page, edge, and Jack white. Jimmy page talks about how they produced the drum tracks for led Zeppelin. They placed two SDC's 30 feet above the drum kit off of a stair case in the lobby of this house that they recorded in. It was pretty neat to hear him explain it.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:20 pm

dylanger wrote:I was watching a video that compared different micing techniques for drums and I was really amazed by how great of a drum sound they got with one LDC in front of the kit.


As Malcolm said, the room and the drums play a small factor as well.

dylanger wrote:There's a movie that came out last year called this might get loud. It's a documentary about three guitar players. Jimmy page, edge, and Jack white. Jimmy page talks about how they produced the drum tracks for led Zeppelin. They placed two SDC's 30 feet above the drum kit off of a stair case in the lobby of this house that they recorded in. It was pretty neat to hear him explain it.

Big factor there is the drummer I bet...lol.
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Postby gamblor » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:28 pm

dylanger wrote:They placed two SDC's 30 feet above the drum kit off of a stair case in the lobby of this house that they recorded in. It was pretty neat to hear him explain it.


this was probably the only way they could make sure bonham wasn't going to whack one of the overhead
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Postby dylanger » Fri Jun 11, 2010 12:40 pm

Ya he was a LOUD drummer. They almost kicked him out at the very first because he was so loud. He also tried having two kick drums but the rest of the band said it was too loud.
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