Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:03 pm

Yeah the look ahead has about 1000 samples of delay in maxim. Almost every brickwall limiter does. Is there a reason you need a limiter on a cue bus? What I do is if my gain staging gets out of whack I'll just adjust the master fader of the bus down until it doesn't clip. Honestly you should be outputting from you're converters at roughly nominal level, so -16 on the PT meters which should give you lots of room before clipping. Once in a while if someones getting picky, I'll put a compressor or an EQ on the cue send, but you just have to be careful to choose one without latency.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:36 pm

macrae11 wrote:Yeah the look ahead has about 1000 samples of delay in maxim. Almost every brickwall limiter does. Is there a reason you need a limiter on a cue bus? What I do is if my gain staging gets out of whack I'll just adjust the master fader of the bus down until it doesn't clip. Honestly you should be outputting from you're converters at roughly nominal level, so -16 on the PT meters which should give you lots of room before clipping. Once in a while if someones getting picky, I'll put a compressor or an EQ on the cue send, but you just have to be careful to choose one without latency.


It's not a "need" per se but some people want ridiclulous volume in their mix. So I was thinking of trying a limiter as an experiment. I just didn't factor in the look ahead.

That being said... Now I'm curious: What would happen if there were multiple instance of a limiter with look ahead in Pro Tools? Would the delays start to compound?
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 6:01 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:It's not a "need" per se but some people want ridiclulous volume in their mix. So I was thinking of trying a limiter as an experiment. I just didn't factor in the look ahead.

I figured as much. This however is not the way to get that. Proper gain staging with getting the most volume from your headphone amp is the way to do this. Same reason you don't crank up your preamp on a live sound console and leave all the faders at unity when you want more volume. If conventional methods don't work you may have to resort to power amplifiers and duct tape ala Cotton! Seriously though giving the player lower impedance headphones may help a lot.

Mathieu Benoit wrote:That being said... Now I'm curious: What would happen if there were multiple instance of a limiter with look ahead in Pro Tools? Would the delays start to compound?

Yes. Remember that first Jake mix I did that was super complicated, and having all kinds of delay troubles with outboard gear? This is why.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:58 am

macrae11 wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:It's not a "need" per se but some people want ridiclulous volume in their mix. So I was thinking of trying a limiter as an experiment. I just didn't factor in the look ahead.

I figured as much. This however is not the way to get that. Proper gain staging with getting the most volume from your headphone amp is the way to do this. Same reason you don't crank up your preamp on a live sound console and leave all the faders at unity when you want more volume. If conventional methods don't work you may have to resort to power amplifiers and duct tape ala Cotton! Seriously though giving the player lower impedance headphones may help a lot.

1) I know how to set up my gain stages. 2) The amount of sound these people "needed" was nothing short of frightening. 3) The Sennheisers are pretty low impedance headphones and they isolate very well too. 4) I may need to read that part of Mixerman again, y'know the part where the session drummer gets burned by the headphones that heat up. I'm thinking that may be a good way to go after all.

Ultimately I think everyone in the world should use in-ears, that way there's no issues.


macrae11 wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:That being said... Now I'm curious: What would happen if there were multiple instance of a limiter with look ahead in Pro Tools? Would the delays start to compound?

Yes. Remember that first Jake mix I did that was super complicated, and having all kinds of delay troubles with outboard gear? This is why.


Oh right... Nuff said.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:17 am

If ur getting desperate you could setup a compressor like a limiter and you should be able to get some dynamic range reduction without any latency.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:56 pm

170ms = 125 samples @ 44.1 correct?

Please don't ask where I'm going with this...
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:03 pm

No
2.8ms = 125 samples @ 44.1
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:05 pm

macrae11 wrote:No
2.8ms = 125 samples @ 44.1


That's what I was thinking, I didn't think my calculation made sense. Can you break it down for me?

EDIT: I think I've overcomplicated this, but yeah I need help.
Last edited by Mathieu Benoit on Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:09 pm

Not sure what there is to break down. Just divide your sample rate by the number of samples. 125/44,100.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:13 pm

macrae11 wrote:Not sure what there is to break down. Just divide your sample rate by the number of samples. 125/44,100.


Wooops. I'm an idiot. I based my formula on minutes instead of seconds. That's teach me to be a drummer.... always thinking in BPMs even when I'm working in Hz.

Carry on.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:26 pm

Yep. There's yer prablem! Whatcha workin' on?
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:41 pm

macrae11 wrote:Whatcha workin' on?


I'll show it to you when I'm done. So you're too distracted by the results to laugh at the process.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:51 pm

Consider my breath bated.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:12 pm

macrae11 wrote:Consider my breath bated.


I seriously can't wait to be done with 2011. I need a drink...
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:00 am

macrae11 wrote:Consider my breath bated.


This mix scares me. I'm gonna run it by Alain first, if he doesn't think I'm nuts then I'll run it by you. I think it's awesome personally, but I'm beginning to think I've developed Stockholm syndrome with it and may need some perspective.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:10 am

What project?
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:04 pm

macrae11 wrote:What project?

stuoyaW ehT
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:52 pm

Cool, didn't know that was in the mixing stage.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:57 am

Question: HD Core card / accel cards

Although I have the HD card in the computer... Since I'm not using yet until we get the Aurora set up it's my undertanding that I'm not getting the benefit of the card's processing yet correct? I guess I'm not completely clear on exactly what the benefits of the card are yet either. Can you give me a brief overview based on your experience? Biggest thing right now is that I constantly have to change my buffer settings which is a pain... Any hope for that in the future?
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:15 pm

Yes there is hope. I can't remember the last time I changed my buffer setting. Just checked and it's at 1024. I don't know what the situation is with the card in PT9+ when using another sound card. My guess is that you wouldn't get any of the features of the card such as the ADC, or consistent latency since there's no audio going through the card. You should be getting all the software features such as the advanced automation, VCA tracks etc. I'm not sure about the DSP on the card for processing. Might be a question for the DUC. Also, even though the patch bay isn't hooked up, it might be worthwhile to hook up the aurora and just hard wire 2 I/O if you're mostly just doing overdubs/editing/mixing.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:40 pm

Well the aurora will be patched in within the next two weeks so I'm not too worried about it. I'm very much looking forward to the new setup. I've been busting my ass off all year to get to this point. It's been over a year since I've used Cubase! I don't even know if I'd remember how to open it anymore...
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:51 pm

Question 63:

When the mixer is in narrow view is it possible to still have the DBFS scale showing next to each meter? the only reason I ask is that I was sure I saw you working with it set up like that once.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:59 pm

No, but you can make the meters themselves wider by control+option+command clicking on them. Kind of useless but handy for seeing them from a distance.
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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:25 pm

Say I have a band that (for whatever reason) the click track was not the right direction. Now let's say that on some songs in particular (all of them) that the band and the producer okay'd the takes, although it's obvious now to them that it's all pear shaped in the timing department mostly with the drums (Let's say I was playing after I downed a quart of bourbon after taking prescription sleeping pills.)

I don't really want to do the edits manually anymore, since I'm getting a headache. How would you use groove templates and beat detective along with EA to speed up the process? An itemized sequential list of instructions that my assistant could follow would be great.

Signed,
Love you long time.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Matt's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:44 pm

You're more or less up the creek. Unless the drummer is off in consistently the same way, there's no semiautomated solution that would give acceptable results. Here's what I would do though...

In order to do this method, you need to have a (relatively) consistent anchor instrument, whose timing is allowed to change, but have to be in the pocket.

Take that part and create a tempo map from it. The more the tempo floats, the more finely you'll have to identify the beats. If the part is very consistent, I can usually get away with every 2-4 bars, if very inconsistent, as little as every 1/4 note.

Once the tempo map is in place quantize the drums (and whatever else needs it) hard to the grid. There will be mistakes and you'll have to go in and tidy them up manually.

Once everything is quantized perfectly, it will probably sound flat, but it might work fine in context. If not, go back to the original tracks(you saved them on another playlist right?) and find a place where the drummer is in the vicinity of the pocket. Create a groove template from that. Apply the groove template to a section of the song as a test. It may or may not work. If it works, continue for the rest of the track. If it doesn't, tweak until it starts to feel better, then reselect the newly edited section and capture a groove template from that to use in the rest of the song. You may need to do different templates for verses, chorus' etc.

All of these steps require meticulous attention to detail all the way through for this method to be viable.

Option #2 Quantize the guitars and replay the drums yourself.
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