How do you choose microphones?

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How do you choose microphones?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:59 pm

It is probably one of the questions I'm asked the most. Whether teaching, or just on the job. I think for everyone it is a very individual approach, and I'm curious to hear what you all think about your workflow. With the many, many choices available compared to when I started out, the possibilities are nearly endless.

So, whether buying, or using, how do you pick what you use?
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:44 pm

It's all about money in a way for me...

For buying we have to look at it like a business. What do we need to be able to put out good products? I typically look at what we need to handle any given scenario. I try to make sure that I have enough of the right microphones to cover all my bases during bed tracking. Once the bed tracks are done then we only usually need a few mics at one time so then it's easier to manage. So we need enough mics to cover the recording of drums, bass, guitars and scratch vocals while leaving us options if we want to try different configurations.

Right now for example I'd say we are two 421s, another 201, and a pair of small diaphragm condensers for overheads short of our goal. But even at that we always make due. I tend to purchase microphones based on their function, from there I either draw from my own experience, someone else's experience or a mic shootout to determine which mic will best suit me for a given application.

As for which to use, it gets easier the more good mics you have. I'm a creature of habit. If it worked last time then it will work again... and then once in a while we'll try something different just to see how that works. But like everyone we all have our comfort zones. Andrew will always instinctively reach for a 441 for snare top if it's available in most cases. I will probably always put an M88 in the kick. Unless of course it doesn't work then we try something else...

I think a lot of us start with a basic template from previous experience and go from there. I think the time/cost restrictions in smaller budget recordings makes it that way too, I'd feel bad to experiment too much on the clock if I knew that I'd get to where I wanted to go a lot easier with the status quo. That';s something I've come to learn from Andrew.

In sumation, I use the mic that costs the client the least amount of money. If I use a mic that I'm not sure will work the way I want I could potentially waste time which wastes money. If I use the wrong mic, and then I have to fight with the track come mix time, I waste time thus money.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby macrae11 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:53 pm

I guess starting with buying, if it's a mic I've never tried before I will always audition before purchase, unless it's quite cheap, say $300 or so. Exceptions of course if I have excellent reports from people I trust, and know their sense of aesthetic. There are very few of those people. So it's a demo, hopefully for at least a week if not a bit more to see if it will fill a hole in the arsenal.

For using it depends on the situation. If it's cowbell, I typically just grab whatever mic happens to be on a stand close by :-). For anything a bit more critical, but still not of utmost importance, I pretty much have a set of candidates that, depending on how I want the source to sound in the mix, combined with what the source sounds like, I can usually narrow to a mic I think will work best, or maybe 2. This just comes from experience and being familiar with my mic locker. I would say I get it right first try 80% of the time, but I still like to try new things on a semi regular basis, just to make sure there's not something I'm missing that would work really well. For example on snare drum I've got 5-6 mics that I know quite well what they'll give me. However as was mentioned in another thread, Matt had picked up a Beyer M201 that had been living on electric guitar since he got it, but we knew we'd have to try it on snare sometime. So when an appropriate session came up we used it for the whole session with a few different drums. I can't say I'll use it for every drum from now on, but it's certainly a favourite, and it will get put there again sometime in the future.

For anything super critical, or if I'm recording an instrument I've never heard before, I'll do a quick shootout. Typically no more than 4 mics because it's hard to keep track of more than that.(Also I only have 4 really good matched pres) I'll put up my best guess', record them all on the same take with them as physically close as I can make them, and pick a winner. If there's still nothing that's really doing it for me, I'll pick the least bad option and throw up 3 more mics. I almost never have to do that.

All that being said, at least half the time, as long as you're in the ball park(ie not putting a ribbon mic 3 inches from Matt's snare drum) the mic is not all that important. If you're working with quality gear in a decent room you should be able to get good results.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:18 pm

macrae11 wrote:I guess starting with buying, if it's a mic I've never tried before I will always audition before purchase, unless it's quite cheap, say $300 or so. Exceptions of course if I have excellent reports from people I trust, and know their sense of aesthetic. There are very few of those people. So it's a demo, hopefully for at least a week if not a bit more to see if it will fill a hole in the arsenal.

I bought the M201 because Steve Albini said it was "what an SM57 would be if it were a mic." For the $250 I paid for it I didn't think I needed to try it out.

Speaking of SM57s... Here's a funny story:

We were tracking drums a few weeks back and Andrew wanted a mic on the hi-hat. So our assistant is asked to grab a mic and put it on the hi-hat. The assistant asked which one, Andrew replied, "Whatever you see first, it REALLY doesn't matter." The assistant looked puzzled, stared at a few mics and Andrew said again "It REALLY doesn't matter. Grab anything mic-shaped put it on a stand and put it near the hi-hat." The assistant grabbed a 57, and Andrew said "I meant to say anything but a 57." I literally LOL'd.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Alain Benoit » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:00 pm

Looks, definitely looks. Gold works, that's a look.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby clinton » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:28 pm

I own an SM58 and a Rode NT-3. I chose whichever one is closest most of the time, which is almost always the Rode. It's worked out well so far.

Live, when I'm asked which vocal mic I prefer, I usually ask for an SM58 since I am really used to them and they seem to suit my voice quite well.

Also, why all the hate for SM57's? They're a great utillity microphone that have been used by everyone for years and years. I don't know much about sound but I have always thought of them as a timeless 'workhorse' classic.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:41 pm

clinton wrote:Also, why all the hate for SM57's? They're a great utillity microphone that have been used by everyone for years and years. I don't know much about sound but I have always thought of them as a timeless 'workhorse' classic.


It's kind of a joke. Not the mic, my comments. Steve Albini seems to not care for them much... So I decided to try a 201. I will probably never go back to an SM57 in most cases if I have the 201 handy. Personally I don't mind the SM57 but they don't see much play at the studio since 99.9% of the time we have something that will do the job better. As for Andrew's comment during that session, there's a bit of context afterward where he explains to the assistant that he doesn't usually like them for hi-hats.

I only used a 57 once at the studio, and it was when I was recording drums for a project of yours actually. It was a Beta57 mind you, and it happened to be in the same room as me while all the other mics were upstairs. I wasn't about to go upstairs so I grabbed the Beta57 and was pleased with the results, as were you. That informal session was also when I discovered my love of the Red capsule on the end of the kick tunnel, because Andrew had our 414. I had fun that night and we got to use a 57, so there. :lol:
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby clinton » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:46 pm

so to sum it up then, you got no beef with a 57 but Andrew does. Got it!
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:57 pm

clinton wrote:so to sum it up then, you got no beef with a 57 but Andrew does. Got it!


No. To sum it up: Andrew and I have no problem with the 57 but Steve Albini does.

http://www.electrical.com/item.php?page=140&pic=pictures/140.jpg

He is something of a legend in the indie world so I take his opinions seriously. However if you showed up with a garbage bag full of SM57s and said let's make a record with only these, I wouldn't refuse.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby macrae11 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:12 pm

I'd be skeptical due the garbage bag, but id give it a go.

The thing with the 57 is that its a 40 year old design and there are better mics available now and many of them are in a similar price range. My biggest issues with the 57 are the poor high frequency response and I dont like the sound of bleed from the 57. Both things which make it absolutely horrible for hi hat.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Alain Benoit » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:06 pm

clinton wrote:
Also, why all the hate for SM57's? They're a great utillity microphone that have been used by everyone for years and years. I don't know much about sound but I have always thought of them as a timeless 'workhorse' classic.


Whether live or in the studio I cannot think of any situation off the top of my head where my first choice would be a 57. If you can name one I can likely think of a better choice for similar money.
As far as hi-hats, like Andrew said, with their tapered top end and their less than stellar off axis response, I'd sooner build my own mic then use a 57 on hi hats.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:40 am

Found it!

http://www.electrical.com/item.php?page=1&pic=pictures/1.jpg

Electrical Audio wrote:Shure SM-57
Type: dynamic
Quantity: 2


Piece of shit dynamic mic some people are inexplicably crazy about, so we bought one. Sounds equivalently good on everything from snare drum to electric guitar. Unfortunately, not a very high standard of "Good." If you need to record something and there's no microphone available, this will do, I guess.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:14 pm

I gotta say, one place where I can't get away from an SM57 being my first choice is still gtr cabs. Maybe it's because I've just used it so many times, and heard it used so many times, but it just sounds "right" to me 97% of the time. Even when I use modelers where you can "pick the mic" I end up using the "57". Sad really.

As far as it being "old" technology, so is a C12 but I bet you wouldn't turn that down if you had one handed to you.

I will also say that if I had a kit with a bunch of unknowns, including newer "better" mics, unless I was into experimenting that day, I would end up with 57s on an awful lot of stuff.

Oh, and yeah... on cymbals.... Yuck!
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby macrae11 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:18 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
As far as it being "old" technology, so is a C12 but I bet you wouldn't turn that down if you had one handed to you.


Correct but I also wouldn't say that there are a significant number of newer mics available now that blow the C12 out of the water as is the case with the 57.

As for guitar cabs, the 201 and the 441 are my main two "go-to"s there, but there's also a handful of ribbons that I've tried, as well as the Senn MD906, 421, U87, 414, and even the m88 that I prefer over the 57. Again not that the 57 doesn't still get used on a semi regular basis, it's just that there are better mics available IMO.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Alain Benoit » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:39 pm

macrae11 wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:
As far as it being "old" technology, so is a C12 but I bet you wouldn't turn that down if you had one handed to you.


Correct but I also wouldn't say that there are a significant number of newer mics available now that blow the C12 out of the water as is the case with the 57.

As for guitar cabs, the 201 and the 441 are my main two "go-to"s there, but there's also a handful of ribbons that I've tried, as well as the Senn MD906, 421, U87, 414, and even the m88 that I prefer over the 57. Again not that the 57 doesn't still get used on a semi regular basis, it's just that there are better mics available IMO.


See now I did not like the M88 on guitar cab.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby macrae11 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:31 pm

Yeah that's why it's at the bottom of the list. Works nice for clean thick bluesy guitar though. Don't find it handles crunch all that well.

I used it on a few tunes of Richard's album blended with a 906.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:37 pm

macrae11 wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:
As far as it being "old" technology, so is a C12 but I bet you wouldn't turn that down if you had one handed to you.


Correct but I also wouldn't say that there are a significant number of newer mics available now that blow the C12 out of the water as is the case with the 57.
I was pointing out that discounting the worth of a 57 based only on it being old technology would be incorrect. Because you prefer newer options is certainly more accurate.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:18 am

Malcolm Boyce wrote:I was pointing out that discounting the worth of a 57 based only on it being old technology would be incorrect. Because you prefer newer options is certainly more accurate.


Which is pretty much exactly what he said in the very same sentence.

macrae11 wrote:The thing with the 57 is that its a 40 year old design and there are better mics available now and many of them are in a similar price range.


Like I said I've got nothing against anything, I just haven't come across a situation yet where I'll grab a 57 over a 201. Even before I had the 201 I didn't use the 57 much, but we do have a pair of them since we are building this studio for anyone to use, not just us. We even picked up its ancestor the Unidyne III 545SD.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:08 am

When I first had situations where I had a choice of microphone, I know that I gravitated toward things that I had seen used by "pros" in similar situations. This seemed like a safe approach, and I'm sure worked out most times. I know I tended to play it safe early on. I think I first experimented with unusual things, not because of time or options, but more likely when I didn't have any of the "standard" choices available. This really helped me learn how different things can really be just with the choice of mic.

I do believe that you get accustomed to certain sounds, and that is why you continue to go back to similar sounding mics. It doesn't mean that you won't or can't try different things, it's just that you are probably comparing it to something you already like, unless you don't have something that works in that given task.

There are so many quality choices available today than 20+ years ago. This makes it even more difficult to make heads or tails of what to do for a lot of people starting out. I understand Andrew saying he will always demo a mic before laying out cash for it, but most times what gets you to that point initially? Advertising? Brand favour? Word of mouth? What matters at that point?
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:20 am

Usually I have a hole in my mic locker that I'm trying to fill, so I'll get a shootout organized to try out some probable contenders.

There's a variety of factors that you mention that could get a mic into a demo shootout though. Word of mouth and brand familiarity are probably the two other biggest ones. Availability is another one. Other than that, I will try literally anything I can get my hands on. Knowing the guys at the music stores helps too because they'll give me a shout if something neat comes in that they think I might be interested in.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:25 am

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:I was pointing out that discounting the worth of a 57 based only on it being old technology would be incorrect. Because you prefer newer options is certainly more accurate.


Which is pretty much exactly what he said in the very same sentence.

macrae11 wrote:The thing with the 57 is that its a 40 year old design and there are better mics available now and many of them are in a similar price range.
My only point is the age of the mic has nothing to do with it's place in the choice progress. It's ultimately only because of preference why you pick what you use. Even mentioning "40 year old design" is not pertinent. 'I prefer other mics' is truth. Generalizing about age in any way I would argue with.

As many big shots who will ridicule the choice of an SM57, including some who's work I love, just as many will always use them. If you look at the equipment list of studios of all sizes around the world, with hugely diverse mics lists, how many don't have at least one SM57? How many stage or production kits? Is it just because it's a joke, or because many still choose and use them everyday?

And it's official... I've come across as some sort of raging SM57 lune. :oops:
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:35 am

macrae11 wrote:Word of mouth and brand familiarity....
Availability is another one.
Other than that, I will try literally anything I can get my hands on.
I'm with you there.

In this day of 1001 brands, what do you find yourself sticking close to? Everyone knows I'm a Shure fan, both stage and studio. I also am loving most RODE and AT mics I'm coming across these days. There's so many condenser choices these days it's hard to keep track of them all. AKG was something I favoured when I was starting out, but now they've really falling down. Things like the 414 lines still do it for me, but I've tried so much of their newer crap, it's really turned me off.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:44 am

One thing for me is that I'm not in the realm of purchasing multi thousand dollar pieces. Like Andrew said, you really have to gauge your budget with what you really need and will use to make your money. When I see people in our market with several pairs of $3-5000.00 mics in this age, I really wonder how they are justifying that other than bragging.
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:52 am

Malcolm Boyce wrote: I understand Andrew saying he will always demo a mic before laying out cash for it, but most times what gets you to that point initially? Advertising? Brand favour? Word of mouth? What matters at that point?

Fletcher? Haha... I don't know.

Advertising does nothing for me. Brand favor? Meh... I'm sure most brands have their duds. Word of Mouth? Depends on who's mouth. I listen to Andrew a lot because I like his sense of asthetics, and I worked with him so much that he's become very influencial.

Again, I target mics based on their function since I'm trying to build a commercial studio, so I'm less about experimenting than I am about getting enough mics to make people happy while being budget friendly. So far there isn't much Shure action, but it's not because they don't make good stuff, it's because between Audio Technica, Sennheiser, and Beyerdynamic we are able to cover a lot of our bases. Not that Shure doesn't have models that kill, I love the SM7 (we have 2) and I would like to own four of them along with four 421s. The edge on the Sennheiser line though is that since we are a dealer, we get dealer prices on Sennheiser and Neumann gear. So soon I see a pair of KM184s in our future and probably a pair of U87s.

The Lawson was basically a deal that we couldn't pass up. The bang for the buck that we got out of that mic... Well, it's killing every other mic we have in a lot of catagories. It's killer on vocals, acoustic, bass, drums... It probably stands shoulder to shoulder with many mics 2 or 3 times as expensive and it's also sexy as hell. Every studio needs at least one sexy mic. :-P
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Re: How do you choose microphones?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:53 am

Malcolm Boyce wrote:And it's official... I've come across as some sort of raging SM57 lune. :oops:

Which was the only reason I even brough it up... I win!

Seriously though, many people still value them and that's why we carry them. You can't own a commercial studio and not have a couple of 57s kicking around. Even Steve Albini has some.
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