Recording Acoustic Guitar

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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:26 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:Thanks for the mic tips, all - and I appreciate all suggestions, too; just because a mic and/or preamp may be out of my current price range doesn't mean I won't look at it later, or someone else reading this thread may take a look, etc etc. At worst, giving me something to compare lesser mics to helps.

I might be able to get you a KSM 141 to try out for a few days, if you want.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:29 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
Christian LeBlanc wrote:Thanks for the mic tips, all - and I appreciate all suggestions, too; just because a mic and/or preamp may be out of my current price range doesn't mean I won't look at it later, or someone else reading this thread may take a look, etc etc. At worst, giving me something to compare lesser mics to helps.

I might be able to get you a KSM 141 to try out for a few days, if you want.
You'll really get the fever going there... :-D
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:38 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:You'll really get the fever going there... :-D

Here's hoping!
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby macrae11 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:34 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:So, Andrew. If you were micing up an acoustic for ODs, and decided on using one mic, would it most likely be an LDC, SDC or something else, and most likely what pattern?


Well assuming strictly for a "sit in the mix" type scenario, it will usually be the U87, or sometimes a 414ULS. It's usually a LDC because, well, I don't have any SDC! :lol: I know! It's the biggest hole in the locker here. Typically will be cardiod pointed somewhere at the 12th-14th fret from anywhere from 4"-2' away. Sometimes if I'm looking for something more intimate and full I'll go into omni mode to eliminate proximity effect and move closer to the sound hole. Sometimes almost right out front. 99% of the time something in those scenarios works on our Lariveé. If I have another guitar in I might experiment a bit more. If I'm doing stereo usually it's the 414's in MS. If I'm doing a singer/guitar player simultaneously it'll almost always be some combination of those two mics in figure 8 with the nulls pointed at the undesired sound source.

When I'm with the Fluid boys, as Matt said, it's usually some combination of the 4051 and the L251. If stereo it's usually a spaced pair.

To give you some ideas:

This album's guitar tracks were recorded entirely with the 414's in MS with a Taylor 810.
http://www.reverbnation.com/katherinemoller
http://www.katherinemoller.ca/

This album was mostly U87 on said Lariveé with some Gibson SJ200, and I think there was even one song with some Yamaha Compass on it. Mostly heavily overdubbed, multiple pass, different capo positions etc. Very different from the previous album.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Scott DeVarenne » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:46 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:So what are everyone's opinions on thumb strumming vs using a pick? I like the soft attack a lot more, but I can see where it makes recording a bit tricky, in terms of volume. Should I just keep working at my picking until it sounds better? Or will a good condenser designed with acoustic guitars in mind not care so much about the lack of volume?

String squeaks when shifting positions has everything to do with the fretting hand and little, if anything to do with the picking/strumming hand (assuming you aren't muting with the picking hand). Lightly brushing the strings with the edge of the thumb will usually result in less amplitude than strumming with a pick, but the string squeaks will remain consistent. When you increase the gain/volume of the thrummed track so it "sounds as loud as" the picked track, you also turn up the squeaks and fret buzz and noise (obviously). This is the squeak-to-meat ratio(or squawk-to-rock ratio) in action. I would recommend keep on rocking that thumb but also getting comfartable playing with a pick. [Warning: It can take years] Pick gauge/material/edge/shape, angle of attack and distance from the bridge all affect the sound/tone. Also, you could play with thrumming harder to see if you can get more volume out of the guitar while maintaining the smooth sounding attack.
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:54 am

Thanks for the advice, Scott! I fret with the ferocity of a college basketball court (at least with this new acoustic, anyway, it was never an issue with my electric). I'm appreciating how different an animal the acoustic really is.

Matt, I may take you up on that mic offer some day (after I get my studio sorted better and ready, of course). With you guys, I'd pretty much make my decision on your advice alone, which is a compliment to your experience, but also totally goes against what you're trying to teach me (try things out and hear for myself). ;) When I'm ready, I should just rent a bunch of mics locally and test them out at home. That's a day to look forward to :) (provided the selection is available)
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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:39 pm

Scott DeVarenne wrote:
Christian LeBlanc wrote:So what are everyone's opinions on thumb strumming vs using a pick? I like the soft attack a lot more, but I can see where it makes recording a bit tricky, in terms of volume. Should I just keep working at my picking until it sounds better? Or will a good condenser designed with acoustic guitars in mind not care so much about the lack of volume?

String squeaks when shifting positions has everything to do with the fretting hand and little, if anything to do with the picking/strumming hand (assuming you aren't muting with the picking hand). Lightly brushing the strings with the edge of the thumb will usually result in less amplitude than strumming with a pick, but the string squeaks will remain consistent. When you increase the gain/volume of the thrummed track so it "sounds as loud as" the picked track, you also turn up the squeaks and fret buzz and noise (obviously). This is the squeak-to-meat ratio(or squawk-to-rock ratio) in action. I would recommend keep on rocking that thumb but also getting comfartable playing with a pick. [Warning: It can take years] Pick gauge/material/edge/shape, angle of attack and distance from the bridge all affect the sound/tone. Also, you could play with thrumming harder to see if you can get more volume out of the guitar while maintaining the smooth sounding attack.

I have to say, this is waaaaayyyy more important than everything else that has been discussed in this thread. I have access to great mics, great preamps, and great guitars but finding a player that can really make it all work is the most important part.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:41 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:With you guys, I'd pretty much make my decision on your advice alone, which is a compliment to your experience, but also totally goes against what you're trying to teach me (try things out and hear for myself). ;) When I'm ready, I should just rent a bunch of mics locally and test them out at home. That's a day to look forward to :) (provided the selection is available)


You are welcome to come by the shop anytime to try out mics, we have a few of them. Just bring your own guitar player/guitar. We'll provide you with an assistant.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Alain Benoit » Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:35 pm

Scott DeVarenne wrote:Pick gauge/material/edge/shape, angle of attack and distance from the bridge all affect the sound/tone.


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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:20 pm

macrae11 wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:So, Andrew. If you were micing up an acoustic for ODs, and decided on using one mic, would it most likely be an LDC, SDC or something else, and most likely what pattern?


Well assuming strictly for a "sit in the mix" type scenario, it will usually be the U87, or sometimes a 414ULS. It's usually a LDC because, well, I don't have any SDC! :lol: I know! It's the biggest hole in the locker here. Typically will be cardiod pointed somewhere at the 12th-14th fret from anywhere from 4"-2' away. Sometimes if I'm looking for something more intimate and full I'll go into omni mode to eliminate proximity effect and move closer to the sound hole. Sometimes almost right out front. 99% of the time something in those scenarios works on our Lariveé. If I have another guitar in I might experiment a bit more. If I'm doing stereo usually it's the 414's in MS. If I'm doing a singer/guitar player simultaneously it'll almost always be some combination of those two mics in figure 8 with the nulls pointed at the undesired sound source.

Coolio. I couldn't tell you the last time I actually did M/S except for teaching it. Stereo for me is usually an X/Y or spaced pair.

I tend to like "bright" for acoustics, and if I had 414s in my place they would probably get brought out for guitars a lot. Lately I'm loving my NT2A for single mic Acoustic duties. I really do listen for a sweet spot in front of the guitar with the only "default" position for me being basically just above where the neck meets the body pointed slightly down. Distance to taste. For stereo it'll most likely be NT1As or KSM137s. Position is all over the place in that case for me.

For lack of a better way of putting it, I do find SDCs on guitars to be slightly more forgiving of the instrument & player, but that generalization is probably just me having a bias.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Recording Acoustic Guitar

Postby macrae11 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:52 pm

I'm a big fan of bright acoustics too, especially in a dense mix. When layering acoustics I'll often have some high capo'd tracks that are nothing but zing.

There's a few reasons the 87 usually wins over the 414's most of the time. First usually when I'm tracking acoustic it's for an album type scenario where is common to go from a dense track with 3-5 acoustics blended, to a mellow sparse track with maybe a stand alone guitar and voice. I find the u87 to be richer in the solo context, and since it takes EQ beautifully it can be easily made to fit in the dense mix. 2nd if I'm tracking acoustics as part of the bed tracks the 414's usually live on overheads. 3rd the 87's always set up! Consequently it's usually the first thing I try and if I'm happy with it I don't go looking farther.
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