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PT10

Postby macrae11 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:31 pm

http://www.avid.com/US/

Well Avid certainly isn't resting on it's laurels. The downside is that this will be the last version for TDM systems, which means the days of upgrades are soon coming to an end for me, as I don't see going through a full crossgrade any time soon. As such I probably won't be updating soon, at least not until I hear how stability is with similar systems. Have you registered your TDM system yet Matt?
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:44 pm

Define "registering" my TDM system. I registered PT9HD with Avid and I'm using the new iLok for PT9HD. However I haven't actually used any TDM yet since we are still waiting on the Aurora.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:47 pm

Hmm... Interesting though. Does that meant that after this I can get more accel cards for cheap?
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:56 pm

By the way... if I registered my PT9HD after October 1st but I purchased it before then can I qualify for a free upgrade?
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:09 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:Define "registering" my TDM system. I registered PT9HD with Avid and I'm using the new iLok for PT9HD. However I haven't actually used any TDM yet since we are still waiting on the Aurora.

When you filled out the online registration.

Mathieu Benoit wrote:Hmm... Interesting though. Does that meant that after this I can get more accel cards for cheap?

In short order, most likely.


Mathieu Benoit wrote:By the way... if I registered my PT9HD after October 1st but I purchased it before then can I qualify for a free upgrade?

That's my understanding. The downside of this arrangement though, is since you, like here at Mastertracks, have a TDM system, there may never be a version 10.1. Or they may continue doing CS updates all the way to version 11, who knows. The trouble is, if 10 still has some bugs to work out, which undoubtably there will be, will there be adequate support after the fact? Who knows, hence why I'm postponing the upgrade.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:13 am

Well this has been something to think about for sure. We haven't invested in anything TDM thus far so I dunno, I guess it's going to boil down to a few things... Are the new cards going to work with the Aurora? How much will it be to crossgrade?

Pro Tools|HDX vs. Pro Tools|HD comparison (per card)

_________________ Pro Tools|HDX____________________________________Pro Tools|HD Accel__________________________
Voices:____________256 (up to 768 total) ______________________________96 (up to 192 total)_________________________
Audio tracks:_______256@48/128@96/64@192 (up to 768 total) ___________96@48/48@96/18@192 (up to 512 total)_________
Instrument tracks:___128____________________________________________128_______________________________________
MIDI tracks:________ 512___________________________________________ 512_______________________________________
Aux tracks:_________ 512___________________________________________ 160_______________________________________
Busses: ____________256____________________________________________256_______________________________________
Channels of I/O:_____ 64 (up to 256 total)______________________________ 32 (up to 96 total)__________________________
ADC:______________ 16,383 samples__________________________________ 4,096 samples_____________________________
Processing depth:____ 32-bit floating point_____________________________ 24-bit fixed________________________________
Mixer depth:________ 64-bit floating point_____________________________ 48-bit fixed________________________________
DSP power:_________ 18 x 350 MHz processors (T1)_____________________ 9 x 200 MHz processors (56k)_________________
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:30 am

My guess is the Aurora won't be compatible right away as they'll probably have to design a new card, and maybe new firmware to interface with the new format. Eventually it will almost definitely work since HD users are such a huge portion of their client base. As far as reasons to upgrade to 10, the most compelling reason I've heard is the RAM cache. Apparently it's just a massive performance upgrade. More tracks, IO, and DSP aren't going to affect guys like you and I so much, they're more aimed at big post facilities. Larger ADC and more powerful cards would certainly be a bonus, and would allow me a few less things to think about, but I'm getting by fine with the current technology, even on my big sessions.
Here's a breakdown of upgrade pricing. Seems about normal, and the pricing if you buy an IO is quite reasonable. The people who are really getting screwed over are people who recently bought a new Avid IO, and don't need another.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:46 am

Well with a buy-in price of 8K to exchange my HD1 system for the HDX system they can pretty much keep it for the time being. I'll just wait until HD accel cards start dropping in price and I will pick up a pair of them and live happily in and HD3 system until can't funtion anymore in that world. I'm assuming this will take a while.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:49 am

So is it that the current cards won't support 64-bit and PT11 aims to be fully 64-bit? Thus PT10 is the last version that will support the TDM cards?
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:58 am

HD Accel PCI-e cards are now at around $1500 on ebay. I thought they were more expensive than that last time I looked...
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:23 am

Mathieu Benoit wrote:So is it that the current cards won't support 64-bit and PT11 aims to be fully 64-bit? Thus PT10 is the last version that will support the TDM cards?

That's my guess
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:26 am

Mathieu Benoit wrote:Well with a buy-in price of 8K to exchange my HD1 system for the HDX system they can pretty much keep it for the time being. I'll just wait until HD accel cards start dropping in price and I will pick up a pair of them and live happily in and HD3 system until can't funtion anymore in that world. I'm assuming this will take a while.

My thoughts as well. If they become cheap enough, maybe even HD4 or 5. Would have to get a Magma chassis for that, which would be a hassle. Once PT10 is confirmed stable with TDM systems I'll think about upgrading, but I'm hoping the price will drop in the future. $1000 is a bit too rich for me. Although there's rumors of a service plan ala WUP, which would include all software updates for the term of the service plan in the $599 range.
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:27 am

Mathieu Benoit wrote:HD Accel PCI-e cards are now at around $1500 on ebay. I thought they were more expensive than that last time I looked...

In a years time my guess is they'll be half that. TDM is still quite a good deal, even at the old prices. It'll be 3-4 years before you can get an HDX card for $3k. I always figure it's not worth the cost, both monetarily and stability wise to be on the leading bleeding edge.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:32 am

macrae11 wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:HD Accel PCI-e cards are now at around $1500 on ebay. I thought they were more expensive than that last time I looked...

In a years time my guess is they'll be half that. TDM is still quite a good deal, even at the old prices. It'll be 3-4 years before you can get an HDX card for $3k. I always figure it's not worth the cost, both monetarily and stability wise to be on the leading bleeding edge.


It may be a year at least before I care about adding an accel card to our system. But it's a good deal even at $1500. Either way I'm going to stay with TDM for the next few years at least. It's like buying a TV though, the longer you wait the cheaper they get, but then they get bigger and bigger and it's a game you can't win unless you just look at what you need out of a TV and be happy with that.
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:04 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
macrae11 wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:HD Accel PCI-e cards are now at around $1500 on ebay. I thought they were more expensive than that last time I looked...

In a years time my guess is they'll be half that. TDM is still quite a good deal, even at the old prices. It'll be 3-4 years before you can get an HDX card for $3k. I always figure it's not worth the cost, both monetarily and stability wise to be on the leading bleeding edge.


It may be a year at least before I care about adding an accel card to our system. But it's a good deal even at $1500. Either way I'm going to stay with TDM for the next few years at least. It's like buying a TV though, the longer you wait the cheaper they get, but then they get bigger and bigger and it's a game you can't win unless you just look at what you need out of a TV and be happy with that.
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:48 pm

Downloading PT10 right now. We'll see how this goes, but I think I'm going to want some more RAM after this.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:58 pm

macrae11 wrote:Downloading PT10 right now. We'll see how this goes, but I think I'm going to want some more RAM after this.


I'm interested in the results. How much RAM do you have now? I think I just have 6GB.

What made you guys decide to make the jump? I'm curious since the HD upgrade is 1000 bones and I can't justify that unless it was some major improvements to my workflow.
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:16 pm

I've currently got 6GB now too. I'd like to double that.

My big issue has been with stability in 9. It's shit the bed several times on me in session, and I'm just not cool with that. I'm trying to find the optimum configuration for this system before letting it live out the rest of its days, which I'm hoping will be another 5 years once I get everything settled. We actually bought the upgrade in Dec, so we got it for $599 with the support plan, which isn't a terrible deal, although I doubt I'll get a chance to use any further upgrades this year.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:37 pm

Since I have updated to the latest version I haven't had much in the way of trouble (outside of some bugginess with melodyne.)

The only thing now for me is that I'd like to have more available voices. So I can see an accel card in my not too distant future.
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:42 pm

Did you ever check to see if you're eligible for the free upgrade? And the reason I decided to take the leap earlier than anticipated is that it comes with a combined PT9/10 license, so if I'm not happy I can roll back to 9 without too much hoopla.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:47 pm

macrae11 wrote:Did you ever check to see if you're eligible for the free upgrade?

I haven't checked yet... I'm suspecting we will get some resistance since we registered it within the alloted time, but actually purchased it a bit before the grace period. What are your thoughts on that?

macrae11 wrote:And the reason I decided to take the leap earlier than anticipated is that it comes with a combined PT9/10 license, so if I'm not happy I can roll back to 9 without too much hoopla.

That's pretty convenient. Do they still have the combination license?
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:58 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
macrae11 wrote:Did you ever check to see if you're eligible for the free upgrade?

I haven't checked yet... I'm suspecting we will get some resistance since we registered it within the alloted time, but actually purchased it a bit before the grace period. What are your thoughts on that?

I doubt they'd know when you purchased it. If it's a problem, put up a stink and they'll probably roll over.
Mathieu Benoit wrote:
macrae11 wrote:And the reason I decided to take the leap earlier than anticipated is that it comes with a combined PT9/10 license, so if I'm not happy I can roll back to 9 without too much hoopla.

That's pretty convenient. Do they still have the combination license?

As far as I know that's the way all PT10 licenses are. I'll know more once the download completes.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:05 pm

macrae11 wrote:I doubt they'd know when you purchased it. If it's a problem, put up a stink and they'll probably roll over.


Sweet... I'll argue with them as if I have $1000 on the line. What's the number of the person I should argue with? I'll do it on my lunch break.

macrae11 wrote:As far as I know that's the way all PT10 licenses are. I'll know more once the download completes.

Good to know. I'm not dissatisfied with 9 but people are saying that 10 is the most solid release since 7.3. What do you know of 10 in terms of its need for resources (CPU/RAM)?
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Re: PT10

Postby macrae11 » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:25 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
macrae11 wrote:I doubt they'd know when you purchased it. If it's a problem, put up a stink and they'll probably roll over.


Sweet... I'll argue with them as if I have $1000 on the line. What's the number of the person I should argue with? I'll do it on my lunch break.

Ah there's the rub. Don't know who to get on the phone. Try searching the avid site for sales numbers. They're hard to get in touch with by phone without having a special in. They work much more over email. You could also check the DUC for somebody who knows more than me. One thing I just thought of though, did you upgrade your system? Because if you purchased an upgrade before Oct 1 then they probably would know about it and you'd be SOL.
Mathieu Benoit wrote:
macrae11 wrote:As far as I know that's the way all PT10 licenses are. I'll know more once the download completes.

Good to know. I'm not dissatisfied with 9 but people are saying that 10 is the most solid release since 7.3. What do you know of 10 in terms of its need for resources (CPU/RAM)?

I'd love to have 7.3 stability. It's what I'm searching for. From what I understand it's a fairly significant rewrite in order to prep for 64 bit, so it's much more CPU efficient, but requires much more RAM if you want to truly take advantage of what it can do, ie. RAM buffering.
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Re: PT10

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:50 pm

macrae11 wrote:Ah there's the rub. Don't know who to get on the phone. Try searching the avid site for sales numbers. They're hard to get in touch with by phone without having a special in. They work much more over email. You could also check the DUC for somebody who knows more than me. One thing I just thought of though, did you upgrade your system? Because if you purchased an upgrade before Oct 1 then they probably would know about it and you'd be SOL.

Then I just need an email address. The puchase of the card came with HD8 I think, because it came with a "Pro Tools HD 9.0 No Cost Update". that update shows on our Avid account that it was "purchased" on Oct 04, 2011. It's a completely separate license than the Pro Tools 9 that we had before (which I will keep when we separate the control room from my edit/composition suite.) So basically... we purchased HD8 with that card, and it came with a free upgrade to HD9 that we "purchased/registered" on Oct 04, 2011.

Does that help?

macrae11 wrote:I'd love to have 7.3 stability. It's what I'm searching for. From what I understand it's a fairly significant rewrite in order to prep for 64 bit, so it's much more CPU efficient, but requires much more RAM if you want to truly take advantage of what it can do, ie. RAM buffering.


I'm totally okay with that. RAM isn't that expensive to upgrade and my CPU is running perfectly fine as it is now.
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