What Controller Should I Buy?

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What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:21 pm

I want to start using Midi. I know literally nothing about this. I know I'll need Cubase or some kind of recording software and a controller. I don't want to deal with sequencers or anything else really. Just a basic set up as simple as can be for a first time user. I was looking at the LPK series from Akai and they seem affordable and get pretty good reviews. I dunno....

What do you suggest for a beginner?
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:28 pm

Haha... Cool. You're gonna have fun with this. To start, what are you using right now to record your audio (hardware/software)? I wonder since it's possible you already have the tools you need to do this.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 1:29 pm

Right now I don't use a PC. I use a Boss BR-532 stand-alone thingie. This will be my first foray into PC recording.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:10 pm

As a MIDI user, what do you want to be when you grow up?

a) Do you want to be a keyboard player who happens to use MIDI to trigger sounds from a computer?
b) Do you want to be synth geek/knob twiddler who can't really "play" keys, but can manipulate sounds using a controller?
c) Someone like me who is neither of the above, but uses MIDI in a technical fashion for triggering, programming, and controlling different things. Also sometimes recording MIDI as a safety backup to the audio capture of keyboards.
d) some combination of a, b, and c.

If a, you're going to want at least 61 keys, bottom line. I like the M-Audio line of controllers, although their budget line keystations feel a little cheap. http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=pro ... ontrollers Just about every manufacturer makes something in this category, and it's more or less a "get what you pay for" type scenario.

For b, you're going to want something with lots of knobs and sliders to have as much tactile control as possible, although be prepared to spend a bit of time programing all these nib nobs to give you maximum creativity once you actually get playing. Akai MPK series, or M-Audio Axioms are examples of these. Both of these come in larger form factors that would suit both a and b.

For myself, I just need the most basic of inputs ala Akai LPK series. My needs are so simple, and I'm such a bad keyboard player that 90% of the time I just input using the mouse. If you have any aspirations for the first two categories, I'd suggest a bit heavier duty board than the LPK series. Otherwise you'll grow out of MIDI controlling very quickly.

As far as the software, just to clarify, Cubase is a MIDI sequencer, as are most MIDI applications. There are a number of options out there, many of which are good. I think part of it depends on what else you want the software to do. If you want nothing but sound creation, maybe something like Ableton LIve(especially if you want to use this on stage) something Native Instruments, or Reason. If you want to incorporate this into recordings that you're doing at home, a more full featured program would be in order like Cubase, Logic(if you're on a mac and have a desire to shoot yourself in the face), Sonar, Pro Tools etc. Mostly just preference at that point.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:16 pm

This is good stuff Andrew. Basically I want to be able to add stuff to my basic acoustic tracks and manipulate sound in creative ways. Bleeps and blops if you will. I love the idea of folk music with some modern electronic flourishes and I want to be able to add these elements myself at home. I'm not looking for Midi to emulate a grand piano and give me "wicked cool organ sounds". I want to distort signals and loops drums, that sort of thing. I hope this makes sense.

The Akai MPK series comes bundled with Ableton Live. Is this a decent program? Can I record with it? I am so green on computer recording. Sorry for ignorance boys.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:30 pm

I assume you'll be asking Dan Chamberlain, but in case it slips your mind: also ask Dan Chamberlain :) It sounds like you'll be wanting to make bubbly, weird noises and atmospherics, and I'm willing to bet he can point you in the direction of an appropriate stand-alone synth that also doubles as a MIDI controller.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:31 pm

Yeah for sure. I have some toys to make the noises with but I really want midi to cut stuff up and make beats.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:35 pm

clinton wrote:This is good stuff Andrew. Basically I want to be able to add stuff to my basic acoustic tracks and manipulate sound in creative ways. Bleeps and blops if you will. I love the idea of folk music with some modern electronic flourishes and I want to be able to add these elements myself at home. I'm not looking for Midi to emulate a grand piano and give me "wicked cool organ sounds". I want to distort signals and loops drums, that sort of thing. I hope this makes sense.


Just to be certain we are on the same page. You don't need MIDI for what you are talking about. MIDI is just performance information, you can also just buy a synth that you like on ebay and stay analog into your standalone recorder to get the different electronic sounds you want. The benefit to MIDI however is that you can get one controller and just buy whatever virtual instrument plugins you want and have tons of flexibility.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:37 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
clinton wrote:This is good stuff Andrew. Basically I want to be able to add stuff to my basic acoustic tracks and manipulate sound in creative ways. Bleeps and blops if you will. I love the idea of folk music with some modern electronic flourishes and I want to be able to add these elements myself at home. I'm not looking for Midi to emulate a grand piano and give me "wicked cool organ sounds". I want to distort signals and loops drums, that sort of thing. I hope this makes sense.


Just to be certain we are on the same page. You don't need MIDI for what you are talking about. MIDI is just performance information, you can also just buy a synth that you like on ebay and stay analog into your standalone recorder to get the different electronic sounds you want. The benefit to MIDI however is that you can get one controller and just buy whatever virtual instrument plugins you want and have tons of flexibility.


Yep, this much I know. I was just saying that don't need an elaborate controller with 88 weighted keys and optional sunroof for what I want to do. Know what I mean jelly bean?
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:45 pm

Hmmm from the sounds of things, you may actually want some MIDI mixed with some audio. A lot of the programming, or "bleeps and blops" that I do are manipulated as audio. They might start their life out as a MIDI signal, but quickly become audio and stay that way for the remainder of their lives. Also drum loops and signal distortion, for me at least, happen exclusively in the audio realm.

Abelton Live is a great program, but it's not really designed for recording, although it can do that. It's designed more so as a live performance/composing tool. However since you may not need much in terms of audio functionality, it might do everything you need. I couldn't mix a song in it to save my life though, although maybe it's improved in the last few versions since I haven't used it for a while.

And that's another thing. Since you're moving into computer recording/sequencing, you've got to take the whole picture into consideration which has a lot more options and pitfalls than recording on a desktop recorder. So you've got to consider everything from audio and MIDI input and output, all your editing needs for audio and MIDI, and then bringing it all together and finally outputting an audio file. There's a lot going on there, and if you've never done it, it can be quite daunting. I'd suggest a couple of lessons to get comfortable with the basics of computer music before diving in headfirst. Simply because what you're asking is essentially starting at chapter 7 of the "computer recording" textbook, but things from chapters 1-6 could come up and bite you without any warning. Or maybe try borrowing some gear before you fork out any money so you can see how you really want to handle all this stuff.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:50 pm

clinton wrote:Yep, this much I know. I was just saying that don't need an elaborate controller with 88 weighted keys and optional sunroof for what I want to do. Know what I mean jelly bean?

10-4 good buddy. Just wanted to let you know that there are two components to the results you are talking about. MIDI is one, but ultimately there are audio solutions too.

EDIT: Andrew beat me to it.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:56 pm

And actually Matt's point has merit. If you don't want to get into basically what amounts to a small college course in computer audio and just get down to making music ASAP, the self contained synth going into your Boss is going to be the most expeditious route. However if you have other plans/future uses for getting into computers, the time spent learning will be beneficial.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:57 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
clinton wrote:Yep, this much I know. I was just saying that don't need an elaborate controller with 88 weighted keys and optional sunroof for what I want to do. Know what I mean jelly bean?

10-4 good buddy. Just wanted to let you know that there are two components to the results you are talking about. MIDI is one, but ultimately there are audio solutions too.

EDIT: Andrew beat me to it.


Just thinking some more about your question and you know, maybe I don't want Midi. I'm really talking about stuff that I don't quite understand. Between your question and Andrew's elaborate responses (which I appreciate very much....thank you), I am starting to think that maybe I want a synth and a drum machine.

I know very well how to use my little Boss unit and if I could avoid PC's altogether, I'd prefer to. However, I've become more and more interested in electronic beats and filtered noises that sound less like music and more like ambient noises.

What do I want fellas? Help me!!!
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:00 pm

macrae11 wrote:And actually Matt's point has merit. If you don't want to get into basically what amounts to a small college course in computer audio and just get down to making music ASAP, the self contained synth going into your Boss is going to be the most expeditious route. However if you have other plans/future uses for getting into computers, the time spent learning will be beneficial.


other than not having to bother Sean Boyer everytime I want something mixed, I'd love to avoid a PC for music for the rest of my life.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:02 pm

Sweet mother of God! Synths and drum machines are $$$$$$$$$.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:02 pm

Sounds like we've gotten to the bottom of this. You want a synth. Something with a bit of programming/patch changing capability, maybe a basic sequencer, and a decent drum machine. Being as I've been out of selling synths for so long, and haven't kept up on the new trends, I'm not really qualified to make a suggestion. Dan Chamberlain is probably the man to fill in the blanks. Keep in mind, that to get something of decent quality, you'll have to spend roughly the equivalent of a reasonable modern computer, MIDI controller, and some software. You could also go the used route, but generally you'll have less options and have to work a lot harder to tweak some more modern sounds from their dated presets.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:04 pm

I think you're right Andrew. One more question. Am I being lazy here or should I suck it up and learn how to record on a PC?
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:04 pm

clinton wrote:other than not having to bother Sean Boyer everytime I want something mixed, I'd love to avoid a PC for music for the rest of my life.

There are certainly options for that, assuming you actually want to mix. Or if you want to keep it simple, a little PC strictly for mixing isn't so bad.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:10 pm

Hey Matt, you know that "Devil In My Hands" song that we made? That was midi right?
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:13 pm

If you're not phobic about having to learn a new way of working, a controller and soft synths, with a software platform suited to your needs is what I'd suggest. Far more flexible, and less "gear" oriented. Once you go there, it's hard to imagine a world without it.

That being said... Whatever works.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby clinton » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:15 pm

No I don't mind learning something new. I welcome it really. How huge is the learning curve? Am I months away from making music or years?
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:20 pm

clinton wrote:Hey Matt, you know that "Devil In My Hands" song that we made? That was midi right?

The drum loop was created by us manually inputting the notes into a MIDI sequencer (Cubase) and then we selected the sounds we wanted from a plugin that took that performance data and turned it into actual audio. So yes technically we did it via MIDI but we input the data with a mouse instead of with a traditional MIDI controller.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:22 pm

clinton wrote:No I don't mind learning something new. I welcome it really. How huge is the learning curve? Am I months away from making music or years?

Days or weeks. Maybe months before it's second nature... but that all depends on you.
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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:23 pm

clinton wrote:Am I months away from making music or years?
Days... Maybe hours.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: What Controller Should I Buy?

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:24 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
clinton wrote:No I don't mind learning something new. I welcome it really. How huge is the learning curve? Am I months away from making music or years?

Days or weeks. Maybe months before it's second nature... but that all depends on you.

I've been working with this stuff for years, and there's still a lot that isn't "second nature"... :oops:
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