Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:36 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:...It's why you would listen off the repro head on an analogue 1/2" machine as opposed to directly off the mix bus of the console...
Or at least check things in repro. You typically wouldn't mix that way unless everything was done and all you were doing was hitting play and record and letting it roll.


Yes of course you wouldn't be rolling tape the whole time so you'd only check along the way and then confirm at print. Tom can, and I would argue should, monitor through the final PT 2 track at all times while mixing since it's easy to do.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:40 pm

Burnsy wrote: For example, Andrew gave us an assignment that he told us would take an hour. Basically he took 6 tracks that were originally time perfected, and sounded good...and he messed each track up individually, in different timings, and the assignment was to put it all back together and make it sound good again. So it took me 3 and a half hours to get it sounding to how I liked it. I remember thinking, I hope I never have to deal with a band whose performances are THIS bad. Time is money.


Ah it seems you need to listen a little closer in class. ;-) I said it would take me an hour to do the edit, but all of my labs are intended to fill a full three hours for you guys.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Alain Benoit » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:44 pm

Burnsy wrote: The vox, kik, and snare, sounded louder the original of the mix, the rest of the mix sounded weaker than the original mix. I didn't assign the master compressor to the MIX bus so it wasn't compressed twice, although to my ears it sounded that way.



Panning/summing/phase issue?

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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:45 pm

Burnsy wrote:18 Tracks playback from Pro Tools. Protools Outputs coming into the SSL on the REC bus, using the EQ, Sends, Returns, Pans, and Faders to create the mix I want to hear. Once mixed on those 18 channels, I use the SSL Direct Record Stereo Outs from the patchbay, and I patch it into the Aurora Lynx inputs on the patchbay, specifically ch 15 and 16. This gives me the stereo mix, which I've assigned to the MIX bus, and I record that in Pro Tools, on inputs 15-16 as my stereo mixdown. I don't think I'm missing anything...... chime in Andrew if you think I may be.

Most importantly, how is your monitoring configured?

Without me understanding how ProTools would be set up in this case, it seems as though it should be just running as a multi track machine and should work as such. I'm suspect of how you are monitoring the before and after printing, and what might be happening to the two mix as and after you print it.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:46 pm

Alain Benoit wrote:
Burnsy wrote: The vox, kik, and snare, sounded louder the original of the mix, the rest of the mix sounded weaker than the original mix. I didn't assign the master compressor to the MIX bus so it wasn't compressed twice, although to my ears it sounded that way.



Panning/summing/phase issue?

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Shouldn't if all he's doing is using two tracks of the multi to print to. It should really be that simple. Something is happening to the tracks either as they're being printed, or after during the listen back phase.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:47 pm

Burnsy wrote: I remember thinking, I hope I never have to deal with a band whose performances are THIS bad. Time is money.

Oh my... Wait until you get out to the real world. dielaugh

Burnsy wrote:Thanks Matt, and it's good to be back.... from a long long hiatus. I'm in school at the Centre for Arts and taking Audio Engineering, as you've probably gathered. And for those of you who know me....I've been wanting this for a real real real long time. My personal circumstances now allow for this to happen...even though I'm a bit late in the arrival. Better late than never! Oh, I'm also performing again... Life is good. :-o

I never went to school for audio. Maybe I should have... Too late now, I'm in way over my head and I'm never getting out. >>> I know enough to be dangerous to myself, and that's good enough for me. :twisted:
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:08 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Burnsy wrote:18 Tracks playback from Pro Tools. Protools Outputs coming into the SSL on the REC bus, using the EQ, Sends, Returns, Pans, and Faders to create the mix I want to hear. Once mixed on those 18 channels, I use the SSL Direct Record Stereo Outs from the patchbay, and I patch it into the Aurora Lynx inputs on the patchbay, specifically ch 15 and 16. This gives me the stereo mix, which I've assigned to the MIX bus, and I record that in Pro Tools, on inputs 15-16 as my stereo mixdown. I don't think I'm missing anything...... chime in Andrew if you think I may be.

Most importantly, how is your monitoring configured?

Without me understanding how ProTools would be set up in this case, it seems as though it should be just running as a multi track machine and should work as such. I'm suspect of how you are monitoring the before and after printing, and what might be happening to the two mix as and after you print it.


PT is the multitrack machine but it's also the 2 track recorder on two new tracks. One thing that just popped into my head- Burnsy did you check to make sure that channels 15-16 were perfectly normalized? Knowing how many people come in and out of that studio I'd be surprised if they were. This would be alleviated by using a tape input on the SSL for monitoring, like Alain mentioned, as opposed to 2 channel strips. If I'd still been awake Tuesday evening when we talked I would have thought of that. I don't know from memory how this is setup on the patch bay though. More research is needed. Off to RTFM I go.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:20 pm

macrae11 wrote: If I'd still been awake Tuesday evening when we talked I would have thought of that.


I surprised you made it through Tuesday alive. I'm still feeling the effects of it.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:28 pm

Yeah I'm thinking my 6-9 class got the short end of the stick on their exam review... facepalm
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:32 pm

macrae11 wrote:Yeah I'm thinking my 6-9 class got the short end of the stick on their exam review... facepalm



Haha... My client got Beatle-esque vocal arrangements. FTW. Although I spent longer than I should have explaining why it should be "ahhhh"s and not "oooooh"s in the bridge.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Burnsy » Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:06 pm

Andrew, I didn't even think to check the board to see if it was Zero'd on the mixdown tracks, that sounds like the culprit to me.....it makes the most sense. I'm hoping the mixdown I was listening to was affected by the EQ and whatever else was being used on those tracks, in which case, on playback, hopefully the mixdown will sound good!!! Here's hoping, I'll find out when I get my marks back.

Matt, I found that I really needed scheduled and formal training in Audio Engineering. I did try learning on my own, mind you I was quite a bit more distracted back then, but I had a HELL of a time learning on my own. Kudos to you for grabbing the bull by the horns and doing it yourself. I would be saving a ton of money if I could do it on my own, but I learn best this way for some reason. Text books, scheduled classes and labs, written tests and practical tests, and the pressure that comes with it. If I didn't do it this way, I think I'd be lacking in my learning, I'm just not disciplined enough. Mind you, it is costing me a crap ton...but willingly so.

I'll tell you this, and I'm sure this is similar to any secondary training people have taken, I'm one of the ones taking this seriously. There are guys in my class, who are spending the same amount of bucks to be here, and I rarely see them. To each their own, but that to me is just a waste of time and money. Guess I'm here for the right reasons.

So on an unrelated note, I purchased an old analogue board about a month ago that I'm running into my line ins on my interface, and recording direct into PT10. I did some research, and found some decent reviews on this old dog, what a beast. Love it. Have a look. http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=rm1608&hl=en&client=safari&sa=X&rls=en&biw=1680&bih=865&tbm=isch&prmd=imvnsfd&tbnid=C-gJRpko87NpNM:&imgrefurl=http://analog.exblog.jp/191597/&docid=rHg5FZiyr1-jgM&imgurl=http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/200501/08/18/c0023318_2121927.jpg&w=1600&h=1200&ei=XSTRT6OdDay30QHItNHSDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=841&vpy=157&dur=780&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=116&ty=155&sig=117368989189859817122&page=1&tbnh=150&tbnw=204&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0,i:76 Wow that's a long URL. Anyways, I like the pre's on it, there's way more warmth and character to these pre's than the mic pre's on my interface. I was concerned about the direct outs of the board, there are 16 unbalanced plugs in the back...I run 8 of them into my interface right now. Future upgrade will be to have all 16 ins, and on the 2nd bus of the board, all 16 back to the board for mixing. So now I'm only using it for the EQ's and the pre's. Not sure if this belongs in this category, but thought it would be worth a mention.

Ok, I gotta get back to studying. All kinds of exams and projects due next week. Always a cluster-F. The week following exams, I'm thinking about laying down some acoustic tracks, and vocal tracks. Should be fun!
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:53 pm

Burnsy wrote:Matt, I found that I really needed scheduled and formal training in Audio Engineering. I did try learning on my own, mind you I was quite a bit more distracted back then, but I had a HELL of a time learning on my own. Kudos to you for grabbing the bull by the horns and doing it yourself. I would be saving a ton of money if I could do it on my own, but I learn best this way for some reason. Text books, scheduled classes and labs, written tests and practical tests, and the pressure that comes with it. If I didn't do it this way, I think I'd be lacking in my learning, I'm just not disciplined enough. Mind you, it is costing me a crap ton...but willingly so.

I'll tell you this, and I'm sure this is similar to any secondary training people have taken, I'm one of the ones taking this seriously. There are guys in my class, who are spending the same amount of bucks to be here, and I rarely see them. To each their own, but that to me is just a waste of time and money. Guess I'm here for the right reasons.


I'm in a weird but very unique situation. I never was interested in audio and to be honest I'm still not that interested in it. My interest is in music specifically. That being said I was minding my own business in a rehearsal space I was renting uptown when all of a sudden a recording studio was built into that space and I really couldn't ignore it. So I started to dabble in it a little bit... I recorded some interviews, some karaoke style voiceovers and a couple of demos, but nothing too serious.

In 2010 I started taking a more active role in the studio and decided that I should try to up my game considerably. I started to sponge off Andrew a lot that year... Busting my balls to try to make things work. Screwing up a lot along the way no doubt, but never letting that get the best of me. Then in 2011 I was taking on a lot of big projects on my own with Andrew's input but mostly on my own.

I'm in a unique situation because I have Andrew and Alain who are both letting me soak up whatever knowledge I need from them and I'm able to work in a real-life environment every day. I asked Andrew in 2010 if I should go to school for this, and he said "Why?" It's not that I woudn't have benefitted from going to school it's that I'm already in the trenches learning the ropes as I go. I'm still fairly new to this game, but I am already in this game.

I'm still learning every day though... and I'm far from knowing everything, but I have a pretty solid foundation and I'll make it work one way or another. It's always more about the person than about their education. We've had a few interns here that were gratuates from a recording arts school. None of them are still here. The only one that is still here has completed his internship (and is now actually getting paid to work here as an assistant), is studying to get an English degree not a recording arts degree. That being said, if he had a recording arts degree with his work ethic and experience and musical background, he'd be a pretty dangerous guy on this scene...

I'm all for post-secondary education, but you can appreciate that not all of your classmates will have a full-time career in the field of audio... and that has way less to do with the paper they have in their hands and more to do with how badly they want to fight for it.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:18 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:The only one that is still here has completed his internship (and is now actually getting paid to work here as an assistant), is studying to get an English degree not a recording arts degree. That being said, if he had a recording arts degree with his work ethic and experience and musical background, he'd be a pretty dangerous guy on this scene...
.

I have an English degree that came with nothing but regret. I know my situtation, life experiences etc. don't match up with everyone else's, but - at least make sure this kid is aware that some people end up chasing backup plans harder than their dreams. Also, people without a backup plan are more likely to chase that dream even harder because they don't have anything else. That's all I can say without being too intrusive or crazy or nothin' ;) Who knows, maybe he's the one person in the world who actually should have an English degree; everyone I know with one only has it because society told them they needed something, they were creative, and didn't know what else to take.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:25 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:...some people end up chasing backup plans harder than their dreams.

Words right outta my mouth.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:37 pm

Also - any job you get with an English degree will not pay phenomenal money (as it turns out, knowing how to appreciate a good story is not a highly marketable skill). If you're going to sell your dreams short, at least do it for mad scratch! Heck, I almost have a CGA designation now, and, while I can afford to buy inexpensive gear from time to time and I'm not in debt or anything, I'm certainly not made of $40 bills by any stretch, either. And this is to say nothing of the psychological cost of forcing your square-peg self into a round hole for too long.

Ok, I've been intrusive and loopy enough - sorry! I just really want to make sure he's aware of these ideas. Plus I wanted to see if my membership status changes with my 400th post!

Edit: nope! :P
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:43 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:Ok, I've been intrusive and loopy enough - sorry! I just really want to make sure he's aware of these ideas. Plus I wanted to see if my membership status changes with my 400th post!

Edit: nope! :P
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Nick H. » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:17 am

Christian LeBlanc wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:The only one that is still here has completed his internship (and is now actually getting paid to work here as an assistant), is studying to get an English degree not a recording arts degree. That being said, if he had a recording arts degree with his work ethic and experience and musical background, he'd be a pretty dangerous guy on this scene...
.

I have an English degree that came with nothing but regret. I know my situtation, life experiences etc. don't match up with everyone else's, but - at least make sure this kid is aware that some people end up chasing backup plans harder than their dreams. Also, people without a backup plan are more likely to chase that dream even harder because they don't have anything else. That's all I can say without being too intrusive or crazy or nothin' ;) Who knows, maybe he's the one person in the world who actually should have an English degree; everyone I know with one only has it because society told them they needed something, they were creative, and didn't know what else to take.


Societal pressure played a rather small role in my desire for a liberal arts degree, I assure you.

I certainly understand the criticisms of pursuing exorbitant post-secondary education, particularly given my propensity to study literature, but I do think the principles of absorbing large amounts of material in a small span of time are extremely transferable. To me, it gets back to the point I think Matt was making -- academically-minded people seem to be able to apply that mindset to anything. The university education I'm getting, debt-free, has been extremely rewarding so far; as I imagine any education has the potential to be.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Alain Benoit » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:10 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:............. some people end up chasing backup plans harder than their dreams. Also, people without a backup plan are more likely to chase that dream even harder because they don't have anything else...............


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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Alain Benoit » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:15 pm

Nick H. wrote: The university education I'm getting, debt-free, has been extremely rewarding so far; as I imagine any education has the potential to be.


To quote a life long friend, 'the only thing in this world that you can purchase that no one can take away from you is an education' this after I asked him if he ever regretted going to post secondary and taking chemistry even though he has never had employment in the field.

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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 11:29 am

Well this thread's taken a bit of a turn. Personally I really value education as long as the student is ready for it, even if it doesn't do anything to improve your job prospects. If done right education doesn't just give you skills for the rest of your working life but also makes you a better human. If I'd been more on the ball as a youngster I wish I'd have gotten a four year degree because I just don't see that happening for me in the future, at least not until retirement. But then again I can't really complain about where I am now and who knows where I would have ended up on another path.

In regards to the update, I downloaded it here and created a clone of my boot drive on Friday. Once I meet some deadlines this week I'll probably be attempting an upgrade early next week. I'm still in search of the perfect resting place for this machine before I let it ride out the end of it's days sans upgrades.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:09 pm

Noone should ever have to explain themselves for getting an education; the onus should be on me to prove that it was my English degree that's held me back from riding a rocket-powered hoverboard while shredding guitar in front of thousands of fans while all the award-winning comic books I've drawn and written flash on giant screens behind me, as a career. Hindsight is rarely 20/20, so my earlier advice may be just as inappropriate for 17-yr-old me as it was for Nick; I just felt that it was important to share all the same, as it's a p.o.v. I don't see offered all that often. Sorry one more time for going off-topic!
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:20 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:Noone should ever have to explain themselves for getting an education; the onus should be on me to prove that it was my English degree that's held me back from riding a rocket-powered hoverboard while shredding guitar in front of thousands of fans while all the award-winning comic books I've drawn and written flash on giant screens behind me, as a career. Hindsight is rarely 20/20, so my earlier advice may be just as inappropriate for 17-yr-old me as it was for Nick; I just felt that it was important to share all the same, as it's a p.o.v. I don't see offered all that often. Sorry one more time for going off-topic!

It's all good. It seems we've lost Burnsy on the process though... :-?
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:32 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:It's all good. It seems we've lost Burnsy on the process though... :-?

He's in the middle of exam week, so I imagine he's studying madly.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:57 pm

macrae11 wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:It's all good. It seems we've lost Burnsy on the process though... :-?

He's in the middle of exam week, so I imagine he's studying madly.

One of life's great joys that I've never experienced. Hopefully he's gonna stick around here though. I love new people.
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Re: Burnsy's Pro Tools learning thread...

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:14 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:... Hopefully he's gonna stick around here though. I love new people.
Tom, ironically enough, is the 5th longest term member of this little waste of web space... :-P
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