DAW Workflow

Tech talk about audio recording and live stage production.
---Hosted by Andrew MacRae & Malcolm Boyce

DAW Workflow

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:47 pm

So instead of straying another thread any further, this post got me wondering about what you all are doing:

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
macrae11 wrote:As to the combining sessions like you describe, Pro Tools is absolutely stunning at that. You don't edit anything in the actual file, instead it's directly in the main session but it's incredibly flexible and allows you to import or not import whatever you want. It would be much more difficult for me to do my job without this feature.


It's back to the cost of time thing. I can load up and set up the next song in a bed tracking session with all the previous song's settings/cue mixes intact, make the minor tweaks that I need for that particular song and be up and running within 2 minutes. In Cubase, I'd have slit my own throat already.


This bed tracking workflow you speak of. When tracking bed tracks of multiple songs, what did you do in Cubase VS what you do in ProTools. I'm curious because I don't know either platform that well.

When tracking beds with similar setups, I will have an appropriately titled project open, and unless for some specific reason multiple passes of that "song" will be included in that project. As soon as we are about to move on to another "song", i will save that project, clear all tracks of content and then "save as" the new song's project. Then we pick up right where we left off settings wise, but with a new title. Turnaround time in the seconds scale.

How 'bout you?
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:34 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:So instead of straying another thread any further, this post got me wondering about what you all are doing:

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
macrae11 wrote:As to the combining sessions like you describe, Pro Tools is absolutely stunning at that. You don't edit anything in the actual file, instead it's directly in the main session but it's incredibly flexible and allows you to import or not import whatever you want. It would be much more difficult for me to do my job without this feature.


It's back to the cost of time thing. I can load up and set up the next song in a bed tracking session with all the previous song's settings/cue mixes intact, make the minor tweaks that I need for that particular song and be up and running within 2 minutes. In Cubase, I'd have slit my own throat already.


This bed tracking workflow you speak of. When tracking bed tracks of multiple songs, what did you do in Cubase VS what you do in ProTools. I'm curious because I don't know either platform that well.

When tracking beds with similar setups, I will have an appropriately titled project open, and unless for some specific reason multiple passes of that "song" will be included in that project. As soon as we are about to move on to another "song", i will save that project, clear all tracks of content and then "save as" the new song's project. Then we pick up right where we left off settings wise, but with a new title. Turnaround time in the seconds scale.

How 'bout you?


Bed tracks are the real crux of the matter for me, because it tends to be the most expensive part of the process if you cosider session musicans.

In Cubase I simply didn't do it. Cubases cue mix routing was always a pain in the balls. The overall flow of the platform was more geared towards the one single user I found. I loved Cubases implementation of MIDI, but it really wasn't made for big sessions with mutliple participants in mind. So I won't even get in to Cubase bed tracking workflow because it was mostly non-existent for me.

In Pro Tools (just like in all DAWs) each session or "project" has it's own file folder that the DAW indexes to find relevant files. So the "save as" method you are describing wouldn't work for me since I like to keep each session's file separate. In Pro Tools I start by opening up a fresh session (soon I'm going to have Nick make a few templates to make that a bit quicker.) and then I start by getting all my tones to "tape". As I do that I get some rough cue mixes set up for each player. I sometimes monitor each cue mix from the control room from time to time to get an idea of what things are like to them if any issues arise.

Once we are ready to start tracking, we record the first take. If subsequent takes are required new "playlists" are created in literally 2 seconds. "Playlists" are essentially lanes used so that various takes can exist at the same time without al being visible at once. You can cycle through your playlists at anytime to hear various takes of any individual track or groups of tracks.

Once you are done tracking. You simply start a new fresh session (in its own file folder) then you import session data from the original session intot he new session. That data can include but is not limited to: Individual tracks, levels/automation, aux sends, inserts, regions and media, ect. You can customize what gets imported too. For example, in the case of bed tracks I import everything except for audio files and then I continue on with the session. The whole turnaround probably took less than a minute.

Rinse and repeat...
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

Mathieu Benoit - Fluid Productions
www.fluidaudiogroup.com
www.facebook.com/FluidAudioGroup
User avatar
Mathieu Benoit
Drumwaiter
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: Saint John, New Brunswick

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:45 pm

To further add to the efficiency of bed tracks we have made one of the 96 point TT patch bays half-normalled. It is divided into 4 quadrants which basically go into and out of the converters that are directly linked to Pro Tools. So basically when you rip out the patch to start a new session all the mic preamps are half-normalled to their respective input channels on the converters and all the monitoring and cue mixes are half-normalled to their respective converter outputs.

Because of this we were able to set up I/O templates in PT specifically for tracking that names paths based on what that channel of converter is half-normalled to. For example Input 1 of the Aurora reads Midas XL42 instead. Output 9 and 10 reads Headphone 1, and so forth...

Basically we can select which preamp directly from Pro Tools which makes setting up the session that much faster. It also eliminates some of the note taking in the session. The mic preamp is already indiciated on the channel, so I usually just put down what I mic I used in the notes section on the DAW mixer.

This saves tons of time as well, although it's not Pro Tools specific, it is more about working efficiently in a hybrid studio.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

Mathieu Benoit - Fluid Productions
www.fluidaudiogroup.com
www.facebook.com/FluidAudioGroup
User avatar
Mathieu Benoit
Drumwaiter
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: Saint John, New Brunswick

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:42 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:In Pro Tools (just like in all DAWs) each session or "project" has it's own file folder that the DAW indexes to find relevant files. So the "save as" method you are describing wouldn't work for me since I like to keep each session's file separate. In Pro Tools I start by opening up a fresh session (soon I'm going to have Nick make a few templates to make that a bit quicker.)....
In Sonar, when you "save as" to a new project, you basically set it up to save to a new directory in the projects directory and it automatically sets up a sub directory for your project files etc., thereby keeping everything separate as you mention.

Hard to believe Cubase wouldn't do the same, but dunno...

In the end, I have the same functionality that you are describing in ProTools. The same project setup as the previous "song", empty content, and all in a separate project directory. Seconds of tweaking....
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:01 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:In Sonar, when you "save as" to a new project, you basically set it up to save to a new directory in the projects directory and it automatically sets up a sub directory for your project files etc., thereby keeping everything separate as you mention.

Interesting!

Malcolm Boyce wrote:Hard to believe Cubase wouldn't do the same, but dunno...

Not easily. It was a huge PITA. without a lot of screwing about it would simply "save as" in the current directory. Same as Pro tools does. The reason is so you can have alternate saved session that access the same directory. Very useful. Andrew and I make use of it when we are collaborating on a project and want to mess with each other's work...lol.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

Mathieu Benoit - Fluid Productions
www.fluidaudiogroup.com
www.facebook.com/FluidAudioGroup
User avatar
Mathieu Benoit
Drumwaiter
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: Saint John, New Brunswick

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:06 pm

The way Malcolm does it is the way I used to do it, and if you do it right Matt Pro Tools will create a new, proper file structure. I find the "proper" way in Pro Tools to work better though as it's more customizable and less prone to user error.

Bed tracking is actually where I find Importing Session Data least useful though. I actually find it saves me time more doing things like combining sessions and mixing. Combining sessions just like I talked about with Sean, and mixing if you work on the first song of an album you can then take any or all settings you used from your first mix and apply them directly to the tracks in all subsequent songs. So say you get a good drum sound and figure it'll be fairly consistent for the album, three key strokes later and you have everything in the second song exactly where you left the first. Inserts, sends, volume, panning, automation etc. Or you can pick and choose if you only want some things. Plug in settings for example without the corresponding plugin automation.
User avatar
macrae11
Andrew MacRae
 
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Oromocto

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:...it would simply "save as" in the current directory. Same as Pro tools does. The reason is so you can have alternate saved session that access the same directory. Very useful. Andrew and I make use of it when we are collaborating on a project and want to mess with each other's work...lol.

I have done that when exporting a project for someone else to work on, but don't want or need them to have everything. Save a "copy" in the existing directory, and then remove whatever I want to not travel in that version of the "song". Then export that version and I still have the original the way I left it.
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:12 pm

macrae11 wrote:...So say you get a good drum sound and figure it'll be fairly consistent for the album, three key strokes later and you have everything in the second song exactly where you left the first. Inserts, sends, volume, panning, automation etc. Or you can pick and choose if you only want some things. Plug in settings for example without the corresponding plugin automation.
Sonar works based on "templates". You can save a track, or group of tracks, busses or whatever, and then import them into another project. A track template for example will come into a project, and if it doesn't already exist, it will activate or insert anything corresponding to it from the project it originated from.... Routing, plugins, everything.
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:42 pm

Can you choose what to import after the template is made? Do you have to manually create the template in the initial session to use elsewhere? Can you import audio with the templates as well? If overlaying on an existing track does it leave the current audio alone?

I'm not trying to bust your balls, I'm just genuinely curious about DAW's in general and what they're capable of. Especially when discussing with someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
User avatar
macrae11
Andrew MacRae
 
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:12 pm
Location: Oromocto

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:48 pm

macrae11 wrote:Can you choose what to import after the template is made? Do you have to manually create the template in the initial session to use elsewhere? Can you import audio with the templates as well? If overlaying on an existing track does it leave the current audio alone?

I'm not trying to bust your balls, I'm just genuinely curious about DAW's in general and what they're capable of. Especially when discussing with someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
You create the template by saving an existing track as a template. One of my only complaints about using templates, and keep in mind I'm using an older version and anything might have changed, is that I can't overwrite an existing track, I need to import it, and then drag content into it if I go that route. I've never had any reason to only import part of a template so I don't even know if that's possible, and I doubt if it is. That's one of those, "don't know why I would" moments for me, but I can understand the question.
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: DAW Workflow

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:28 pm

Cubase allows you to save current sessions (or projects if you will) as templates as well.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

Mathieu Benoit - Fluid Productions
www.fluidaudiogroup.com
www.facebook.com/FluidAudioGroup
User avatar
Mathieu Benoit
Drumwaiter
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 6:55 pm
Location: Saint John, New Brunswick


Return to Sounds Good...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron