Looking for some mix notes

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Looking for some mix notes

Postby Nick H. » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:21 pm

As some of you know, I wrote an album last year and it's getting to the mix stage. I posted one of the songs online to possibly keep people interested in what we're doing. I'm really happy with it, but I'm curious to see what others think. If you are so inclined, the link is below.

http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_14614994
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:33 pm

What are we looking at on there Nick...? I see three tunes.
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:36 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:What are we looking at on there Nick...? I see three tunes.


I think he means the first tune. It's called "For You".
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby Scott DeVarenne » Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:25 pm

For You
Very nice sounds. I like the song.
I want more bass guitar.
I'm not a big fan of hard panned guitars. If doubling guitar parts, then yes, of course, hard panning is wonderful. But for separate parts, not so much.
Just after 3:30, where it builds back up to full band- clean electric guitar, acoustic, bass and percussion all enter at 3:31. I can imagine the clean electric(hard left) waiting until 3:37 to enter. Maybe give it a try. You've probably listened to that few seconds dozens upon dozens of times, so without that guitar there it may sound totally wrong to you. But to me, only hearing the song a couple of times, that part caught my ear. It didn't really sound wrong to me, but immediately I wondered if it could sound a little more right. Just a little bit better.
And a little less left. Haha, that last bit is supposed to be funny. Or should I say punny?
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby Nick H. » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:03 am

Scott DeVarenne wrote:For You
Very nice sounds. I like the song.
I want more bass guitar.
I'm not a big fan of hard panned guitars. If doubling guitar parts, then yes, of course, hard panning is wonderful. But for separate parts, not so much.
Just after 3:30, where it builds back up to full band- clean electric guitar, acoustic, bass and percussion all enter at 3:31. I can imagine the clean electric(hard left) waiting until 3:37 to enter. Maybe give it a try. You've probably listened to that few seconds dozens upon dozens of times, so without that guitar there it may sound totally wrong to you. But to me, only hearing the song a couple of times, that part caught my ear. It didn't really sound wrong to me, but immediately I wondered if it could sound a little more right. Just a little bit better.
And a little less left. Haha, that last bit is supposed to be funny. Or should I say punny?


Thanks for taking the time to comment!

I did initially try the 3:30 part without the clean electric and it sounded weird to me, but maybe it could be panned centre there? As far as hard-panning goes, I tried it in the middle and felt it took up too much space; any suggestions?
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby Scott DeVarenne » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:47 pm

I just found that everything else about that build was very smooth, but that guitar stuck out a little. Center the guitar there? Can't hurt to try. You could try to soften it with tremolo* and/or swelling it in at the start. (*I mean just for 3:31-3:37).
Hard panning- it certainly does open things up, but I often find it distracting, especially if I am wearing headphones or near the "sweetspot" between two speakers.
Nick H. wrote:As far as hard-panning goes, I tried it in the middle and felt it took up too much space; any suggestions?

Somewhere between center and full left?
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:30 am

I listened to it on my phone's speaker and as such my notes are based on that experience. /disclaimer

I thought the vocal ride could still use a little work. Some of the words are hard to make out, while at the end some of the passages are really loud in a way that is a bit distracting. I agree with Scott about the bass, I could use a little more bass. I could also use a bit less drums. I know that the drums should be loud enough to be impactful but the snare distracts me from the vocals especially in the second verse.

I disagree with Scott about the guitars as a rule. I was listening to it on my mono phone speaker, but I specifically love hard panned guitars when the parts are different. So long as the parts work well with the song. When I overheard you working on the song last week the hard panned guitars did not bother me one bit.

P.S. I'm still not sure how crazy I am about the snare tone... but c'est la vie. Move on to the next mix and we'll go over revisions when you are all done.
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby Scott DeVarenne » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:36 am

I also felt the drums were a bit much (specifically snare and mostly just early in the song), but once the tune got kickin' I found they fit better. After that, I think I got used to it or maybe my brain decided to ignore the drums and listen to other stuff.
I found the snare sounded unique, even unusual, but interesting. That combined with the level does make it pull the focus away from the vocal, down a bit it could be wonderful.
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby macrae11 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:35 pm

I started writing this up last night, but my browser frigged up on me. I've got a bit of a laundry list, but overall it's a good starting point, so don't get too offended. :-D

First off I agree with Matt, electric guitar is good IMO although Scott's concerns might be alleviated by bringing up the acoustic a bit.
Vocal ride needs some work.
Bass guitar needs to come up,but overall the lowend needs some work. It's lacking on a number of instruments, acoustic, vocals, toms, etc
Everything's a bit harsh in the 3-4k range, which is probably part of the same problem as above.
Could use a bit less verb overall. Don't like it on the kick in the intro/V1. It might be just the room mics, but it sounds off to me. Might also be the wrong verb. It's kind of grainy and unpleasant particularly on bright stuff like hats/sibilance.
piano and acoustic and organ? are too quiet.
Drums are a bit too hot. Sounds like it might be too much bottom snare mic causing the papery sound. Do you remember/any notes on what the setup was for this song? I seem to think it was the Yamaha brass tuned down, but my memory works about as well a sieve holds water.

It sounds like you're trying to be safe. Don't be afraid to be aggressive, and possibly screwing the whole thing up. Might use some (more?) 2bus compression. Trying bringing the crunch guitars way up during the big moments. Throw some huge delays in there. Put a 747 sound effect in there. Ok maybe not the last one.

Hope that doesn't sound to harsh. I'll give it another listen after a few days and see if my thoughts change.
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:43 pm

Too harsh? Haha... that's a fraction of what you give me for mix notes.

BTW, welcome back!
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Re: Looking for some mix notes

Postby sean.boyer » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:01 pm

Without reading the comments of anyone else, here are my rough observations. I'm writing these as if this were one of my mixes that I was taking notes on to go back and work on:

* Vocals need de-essed. With the compression on them, some of the sibilance is exaggerated by the comp and is squishy and harsh and noticeable. Probably heavier pop filtering at recording would have been preferable to post.
* Snare has too much "from the bottom" sound, or not enough top. If the snare has a bottom mic, back that off, and get more top. Warm up the top, and HPF the bottom mic to taste
* Kick is doing that "door knocker" thing. I'd cut in heavy around 700-1k, bring the lows up a db or 3, and some narrow boost between 4-6k to taste to get some snap in place of the upper mid spike thing
* Main elec tracks panned hard sounds odd. Bring them closer to centre. Sounds nice when the "right side" guitar comes in right-only with the chord wipes, but maybe sneak it back to closer-to-centre after.
* M/S Reverb for vocal maybe?
* "Poong" in the toms: I like it. Maybe consider trying a mix with some 300-500 knocked out and the bottom brought up a bit to "fatten and flatten" them a smidge, since others might think it should be a bit smoother.
* If there's bass in this track, it's too understate. Get it up there with the kick. Don't hold back on the bottom, as all the other program is staying away from the sub 200 mark. Compress the bass to hell and back if need be to keep it a solid fat snake for the rest of the song to ride on. I want to REALLY notice when the bass falls out for the breakdown parts.

Summary: Track is pretty close. Polish the vocals, re-introduce the bass, make the guitars more centre-centric, and you're on the right path.

PS - I was listening to this track on the ear buds that came with my phone. They're not great, but they're not forgiving either.
PPS - Nice recording! The tracks sound clean and present. Good instruments and good playing. Won't be hard to whip this tune into shape.
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