Horn Section

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Horn Section

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:32 am

So... Looks like I'm record a horn section soon. I've recorded solo sax before but this will be a 3 piece horn ensemble, comprised of saxaphone, trombone, and trumpet. This is new territory for me. I haven't considerered all the variables yet so I'm going to ask for some advice, and I'm also going to make some suggestions and I hope to have a rough starting point for the day of the session by the end of this.

For starters, this is a pop production. Very fast pace, and the horns are likely going to be fairly prominent. I have already worked out the arrangements and the charts with their leader and the ensemble has been together long enough to be quite comfortable. Basically I just need to sort out how I want to go about tracking it.

I'm thinking that I'll track them in the live room with a combination of close mics and distant mics. Any suggestions or thoughts beyond that?
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Re: Horn Section

Postby macrae11 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:06 am

Main question, are the players "pro"? Not pro as in make a liv.... you know what I mean.

If it's pro players I'll usually arrange them in a semi circle, sometimes as much as 180º around. Put the loudest instrument and the softest instrument facing each other, unless the players have a typical setup that they're more comfortable with. Typically it'll be trumpet(loudest) and sax(softest). The better the players the less you have to worry about this separation. With great players I'll just put them where comfortable which is often only slightly more curved than a straight line.

Then I'll place a stereo array using distance to blend ambiance to taste. Usually MS or XY. This will be 95% of my section tone. I will still spot mic purely to be able to manage levels a bit if needed. Done.

As the players get less capable I'll create more and more separation and rely more on close mics. If you need to do some tuning(Yes I've had to do it) get absolute maximum separation, even to the point of separate rooms, or separate takes. Otherwise you'll be in phase hell.

For close mic positioning, I don't typically do anything too fancy. Don't get too close. 1 foot is usually my minimum, but if I'm fighting bleed I'll do whatever it takes. Sax, don't bury the mic in the bell. If I'm doing solo sax I'll often use two mics, one on the bell and one on the left hand fingers, but for sections I'll usually just do one placed between the two. Distance is your friend. For brass, basically just in front of the bell but placing off axis can help mellow things a tad, especially with searing trumpet parts. Watch out for players who are "active" again, distance is your friend. U87 is my favourite for sax, 441 for trumpet, and SM7/RE20 for trombone. Lawson might be too bright for sax, so you might be better of with a 414 or even Red. The Lawson might work great on trumpet though. Really going to depend on the player.
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Re: Horn Section

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:49 am

macrae11 wrote:Main question, are the players "pro"? Not pro as in make a liv.... you know what I mean.


They are as "pro" as you'll find around here. I don't expect to have any problems on their end. They play a lot of shows together and the leader is exceptionally qualified.

macrae11 wrote:If it's pro players I'll usually arrange them in a semi circle, sometimes as much as 180º around. Put the loudest instrument and the softest instrument facing each other, unless the players have a typical setup that they're more comfortable with. Typically it'll be trumpet(loudest) and sax(softest). The better the players the less you have to worry about this separation. With great players I'll just put them where comfortable which is often only slightly more curved than a straight line.

Then I'll place a stereo array using distance to blend ambiance to taste. Usually MS or XY. This will be 95% of my section tone. I will still spot mic purely to be able to manage levels a bit if needed. Done.


Cool. I was actually thinking about it in terms of how we attacked the string quartet: M70s in XY, and spot mics.

For spots maybe 414EB on sax, SM7 on trombone, and 441 on trumpet. I was also considering all LDC in fig8 and using the nulls to cut down bleed. Thoughts?
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Re: Horn Section

Postby macrae11 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:57 am

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
For spots maybe 414EB on sax, SM7 on trombone, and 441 on trumpet. I was also considering all LDC in fig8 and using the nulls to cut down bleed. Thoughts?



Worth a shot, especially on the quieter instruments, although again, I doubt it'll make a ton of difference since you'll probably get most of your sound from the stereo pair.
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Re: Horn Section

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:27 pm

Finding the right location and distance from horns is the whole game, and can be counterintuitive in some cases. So many pics and video of mics stuffed into the bell have people programmed into the wrong mindset from the start.

Don't get so focused on the "section" that you lose track of the intent in the mix. Especially with respect to "ambiance".
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Horn Section

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:25 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:Finding the right location and distance from horns is the whole game, and can be counterintuitive in some cases. So many pics and video of mics stuffed into the bell have people programmed into the wrong mindset from the start.

Don't get so focused on the "section" that you lose track of the intent in the mix. Especially with respect to "ambiance".


All excellent points, and for me some of these go without saying but you I'm glad you brought them up. I'll be making all my decisions in context and I've recorded enough to not pay attention to what pic placement they were using on the music video.
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