CD Cover Layouts

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CD Cover Layouts

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:42 pm

I have no idea where to put this, so it's going in this forum for now.

Is there a checklist of things that should be present on the CD cover layout? I've never actually put much time into thinking about it and I'm just curious to know what are the things that can go wrong when the graphic designer is not familiar with this type of work. I guess I'm mostly looking at Andrew... but anyone who has released a CD or worked on a layout can jump in.

I know what should go on as far as production credits, but the rest seems to be a bit of a mystery to me... This thread can also serve to help anyone else that will be doing this in the future.

Can someone walk us through it from start to finish?
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby macrae11 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:00 pm

I don't think there are too many rules other than don't be a total moron.

Some check list items though:

spelling
credits properly attributed
make sure it meets manufacturers specs
spelling
artist
title
spelling
song list in correct order
spelling
depending on how big the insert is going to be, thank yous, song lyrics, contact info, copyright, MAPL logo, bar code, label info, CD reference code, year, SOCAN, studio/production/artist logos, website/social media
spelling
attractive design - subjective
Did I mention spelling?
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:22 pm

Don't be a total moron. Got it. Hey...at least I'm asking these questions BEFORE it goes off to be printed 1000 over.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:28 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:...things that can go wrong when the graphic designer is not familiar with this type of work.
Which is why, first and foremost, I recommend using someone who is familiar. And like mastering... No, it isn't too expensive. Content is up to you, but trust them with respect to quality control of what the end product will look like.

Andrew covered most of what I think you need to consider. I know I'm fussy about how things look... what order things appear credits wise... etc. So many combinations and permutations of what qualifies as a layout. It really is on a case by case basis, because it depends on what the client wants, and will be doing with the product.

...and yeah. Spelling.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:35 pm

macrae11 wrote:MAPL logo
Someone recently asked me about this. It just seems so far removed from relevance these days...

You haven't had to put copyright notices for years, but people have continued to do so for whatever reason. I wonder if the MAPL thing will be the same at some point.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:45 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:MAPL logo
Someone recently asked me about this. It just seems so far removed from relevance these days...

You haven't had to put copyright notices for years, but people have continued to do so for whatever reason. I wonder if the MAPL thing will be the same at some point.


I had to actually look that one up.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:48 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:...things that can go wrong when the graphic designer is not familiar with this type of work.
Which is why, first and foremost, I recommend using someone who is familiar. And like mastering... No, it isn't too expensive. Content is up to you, but trust them with respect to quality control of what the end product will look like.

Andrew covered most of what I think you need to consider. I know I'm fussy about how things look... what order things appear credits wise... etc. So many combinations and permutations of what qualifies as a layout. It really is on a case by case basis, because it depends on what the client wants, and will be doing with the product.

...and yeah. Spelling.



But if I don't know what a proper job looks like, then how can I tell whether it's a good job?
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby macrae11 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:51 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:MAPL logo
Someone recently asked me about this. It just seems so far removed from relevance these days...

You haven't had to put copyright notices for years, but people have continued to do so for whatever reason. I wonder if the MAPL thing will be the same at some point.

Yeah it's one of those things that can fill space on a design, but certainly isn't super critical unless it's going to be played significantly on Canadian airwaves.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby macrae11 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:01 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:...things that can go wrong when the graphic designer is not familiar with this type of work.
Which is why, first and foremost, I recommend using someone who is familiar. And like mastering... No, it isn't too expensive. Content is up to you, but trust them with respect to quality control of what the end product will look like.

Andrew covered most of what I think you need to consider. I know I'm fussy about how things look... what order things appear credits wise... etc. So many combinations and permutations of what qualifies as a layout. It really is on a case by case basis, because it depends on what the client wants, and will be doing with the product.

...and yeah. Spelling.



But if I don't know what a proper job looks like, then how can I tell whether it's a good job?


You know what a proper job looks like, you just haven't scrutinized them heavily. Which is usually a good thing because if you did, there was probably something wrong with it. Take a look at a number of professionally pressed CD's. You'll notice some trends, some things you didn't think of, some things you like, and some things you don't like. Good design is something you won't generally notice unless you're paying attention, like good mastering.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:07 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:But if I don't know what a proper job looks like, then how can I tell whether it's a good job?
I really do find a parallel between mastering and layout. Although it really is ultimately up to you what it sounds/looks like, you need to find someone who can do something "right" with what you give them to work with.

I can't say anything else except a proper layout just looks like a album to me, as opposed to something home made. Unfortunately, "computers" have done similar things to proper graphic arts as a profession, as they have to recording.

Many crappy CD layouts, while talented artists who are reasonable priced aren't as busy as they could be....
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:10 pm

macrae11 wrote:Take a look at a number of professionally pressed CD's. You'll notice some trends, some things you didn't think of, some things you like, and some things you don't like. Good design is something you won't generally notice unless you're paying attention, like good mastering.
Hey... The mastering comparison is mine! :mrgreen:

Seriously though. Looking at layouts that you like, and figuring out why you like them is something worth doing. Artists that are great at album layouts are usually fans of great layouts. Mike Girouard is a good example of someone who could tell you about so many great album covers, because he is a fan of that stuff, and it comes out in the work he does.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Jef » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:42 am

There's also the physical layout parameters for the CD package. I got some layout templates from Sound Expressions for the last project I did. Very helpful to know how things will look in full scale. Also handy to have for whomever is doing the graphics/artwork. I will post it if I can find them.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:51 pm

A note on meeting manufacturer's specs - try to make sure your dpi (dots per inch) in the graphics program you're working in are higher than what the dpi of the final printer can print out, so you can scale down if you need to. Never scale up.

For example, an online comic-book printing service requests files sent to them in 300 dpi. Many artists will work in 600 dpi, and then scale it down to 300 dpi for print. If they worked in a lower resolution (say, 100 dpi) and printed it at 300 dpi, it would get all pixely and stupid-looking. Don't let that happen to anything in your booklet (art, font, inside tiny photos, etc). I'm sure we can all make audio analogies to this!

If you're incredibly specific about the colours you want to see, then find out what model the printer will be, and set the graphics software to match ICC colour profiles, so that what you see on your computer screen will be as close an approximation as possible to what you will see on the printed booklet paper. Any designer you ask this of will probably say you don't have to bother doing this, but I think it's worth it to bring it up, just so they can explain it to you and you can be aware of what it is. Occasionally, a photo of a person might look fine on the computer screen, but the printer might make them look pale, or red in the face, compared to what was on the monitor. Matching colour profiles can help prevent that from happening.

Along these lines, know the difference between RGB and CMYK (starter article here, more useful article here.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:58 pm

Makes sense. Same thing as working in audio really.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby macrae11 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:44 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:If you're incredibly specific about the colours you want to see, then find out what model the printer will be, and set the graphics software to match ICC colour profiles, so that what you see on your computer screen will be as close an approximation as possible to what you will see on the printed booklet paper. Any designer you ask this of will probably say you don't have to bother doing this, but I think it's worth it to bring it up, just so they can explain it to you and you can be aware of what it is. Occasionally, a photo of a person might look fine on the computer screen, but the printer might make them look pale, or red in the face, compared to what was on the monitor. Matching colour profiles can help prevent that from happening.


Another good point about this is most printers will give you a test print if you request it. Sometimes it's just a pdf, but it can be helpful if you're getting picky. The new manufacturer we're using is quite good with colour so I don't worry about it much anymore.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:15 pm

macrae11 wrote:Another good point about this is most printers will give you a test print if you request it. Sometimes it's just a pdf, but it can be helpful if you're getting picky. The new manufacturer we're using is quite good with colour so I don't worry about it much anymore.


Again, though, a .pdf will look different on the screen compared to what prints out on paper (colour-wise, not as much layout wise). Request a printout like Andrew says, or, just go with his manufacturer and let them worry about it :)
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby macrae11 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:32 pm

Yes it will look different, but that's exactly the point. You can compare what the difference is between what you sent them and what they sent back. Not a perfectly clear picture, but it can help to triangulate the correct location. It's better than nothing when shipping a print isn't an option.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:24 pm

I'll agree, to the extent that the designer has calibrated their graphics programs (can I call it a DAW? Digital Art Workstation? :D ) with their printer, to give you the best approximation, under the circumstances, of how the colours will look. If Matt sends the designer a photo, and the designer puts it through his or her "DAW" and produces a .pdf that doesn't account for the colour gamut of the printer, then the photo will come back to Matt in a .pdf that looks the same as the photo Matt sent originally.

I'm saying this not to be picky and argue with you, Andrew, but just to make sure Matt is aware of everything he should watch out for. If Matt asks the designer for a .pdf and asks "Has this been calibrated with the printer you'll be using? Is this how it will look in print?" and they say "it's pretty close," then he should be good; if they say "wtf are you talking about, zomg lolz" then perhaps Matt will get the impression that they aren't all that professional and maybe should not be trusted. Since there are professional recording studios out there that make dumb mistakes, there will be professional designers out there who make dumb mistakes too. Asking about it up front can help weed them out, hopefully.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby macrae11 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:58 pm

I completely agree and get what your saying. My understanding though, at least at the manufacturer we use is that the pdf that's sent back will be colour accurate to the printed version. So if the colour is off on the designers proof the pdf that is sent back from the plant will actually be different and closer to what will be printed.

I could be mistaken since this was a number of years ago that I had the conversation, but that was my understanding.
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:51 pm

That's a WAY better way of saying it than I was saying :D
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:35 pm

Lot's of technical talk about printing... I'll have to flash the "Fish" signal... ;-)
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby fish » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:14 pm

Mal, Andrew and Christian bring up a lot of good points, and have covered pretty much all the bases. From a technical standpoint, I wouldn't bother making your final product any higher than 300 DPI, though. If you follow the production specs during your layout, there will NEVER be an instance where it will need to be scaled after that, and working in the print industry I can tell you that files that are unnecessarily high resolution usually get downsized on the printer's end before being ripped. It's better to manage it beforehand. Anything that you can keep in your control (and out of the printer's hand) is best.

As an example, a few years ago i did a CD layout for someone and sent the files to a production company (no names to protect the innocent). They sent the artist an inkjet proof and the colors looked NOTHING like what I had produced. I assured the client that my setup is calibrated and their proofing system isn't up to snuff, but the final print product would be correct. The company assured the artist that their proof was EXACTLY what would be printed, and I needed to adjust my files, even if it looks wacky on my end. I knew I was right and told him so, but the artist assured me I was wrong, and made me adjust (it's his money, and call, after all). Of course, the new proof comes back looking great (even though it looked crap on my screen, and on my printouts) but when the final discs arrived, they looked EXACTLY like my crap screen and printout. Then the artist asks me "why?", to which I had to respond "I'm very sorry, but I told you so". Anything that can be managed before it hits the printer SHOULD be managed before it hits the printer. Don't let their 'expertise' trump what you (or your graphic guy) KNOWS is right.

Also, proof everything VERY CAREFULLY. VERY, VERY CAREFULLY. Errors that immediately JUMP OUT when the final disc is delivered have been there through the entire process. Please look at the CONTENT of the proof, rather than just how "pretty" it looks (or how pretty THEY look on the cover :-D

I think all of this goes beyond the original question, though. Look at layouts that you like, and chances are what is on it, it should be on yours as well (although that's subjective, of course).
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:10 pm

Thanks Mike... :-)
fish wrote:Also, proof everything VERY CAREFULLY. VERY, VERY CAREFULLY. Errors that immediately JUMP OUT when the final disc is delivered have been there through the entire process. Please look at the CONTENT of the proof, rather than just how "pretty" it looks (or how pretty THEY look on the cover :-D
**Cough** Roach **Cough**
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:28 am

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
fish wrote:...or how pretty THEY look on the cover :-D
**Cough** Roach **Cough**


I like how I can take this comment out of context and put a different spin on this entire conversation. :mrgreen:
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Re: CD Cover Layouts

Postby dennisthemenace » Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:12 pm

I may be late in replying to this thread, but printing is my bag so to speak.

Christian's tip of using the icc profile of the type of machine it will be printed on, if it can be found out,
is a great way to start. Great tip!

Adobe allows you to do this easily. Essentially you are then designing in a colorspace (think filter)
that will use the same color tolerances and gamut or range as the actual printer itself.

If it hasnt been stated already,
find the color mode they require for press. CMYK or RGB
this will make a huge difference in the color if the designer is makiung the thing look pretty in RGB (3 color press) mode
but the printer uses CMYK (4 color press). The colors will then be altered and result in looking like crap.

Ensure that sufficient bleed or overprint is allowed for CD Labels and insert booklets for trimming.

If your designer is working in layers (which of course they are) they need to flatten all layers.
If they do not, there could be bounding boxes or lines or other articfacts that will show up in the artwork.

Unless its been stated by the company that is doing the printing, a PDF file is best.

They type of PDF that I have been creating for years follows the standard of
PDFX-1A. Its one of the oldest, most received formats.

Ensure that Pantone or custom colors are kept to an absolute minimum, or ensure
that they have been converted properly to an RGB or CMYK equivalent.

Again, if the printing company
doesnt have the correct recipe for colors, crapola print. :)

I'm proud to say that a number of years ago, when I did a project with Ian Vail, I did the booklet, CD label, the tray liner,
The recieving company said it was the first time in years that they did not have to make any adjustments to the file to prepare for print.
That was for a 4 panel double sides cd booklet.

In my previous department at Xerox (I miss that job now) that was the type of task I would help customers with.
Such as correcting some issues with artwork on the DVD liner for the movie Precious. The studio is a Xerox customer and my
task was to remote into their Mac and help correct the irregularities they were seeing, because the artwork was not flattened.

Be glad to help in the future.
D
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