Help me make a drum kit!

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Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:35 am

So, I may have finally decided to sell all my drum kits and just buy one kit for everything. I have a good lead on my live kit, so if that sells I'm putting that money down on my new kit.

Basically I want this kit to mostly a studio kit, but I will play it live too, so the emphasis will be on its performance in the studio.

I already know a few things about my new kit, such as the make and the finish, etc. I also know that I'm not buying a snare drum with it (I have plenty and I'll buy an appropriate mate for this kit later.)

So basically I'm down to two very important factors: Sizes and Wood type.

Let's start with the kick drum. I will be having very mixed feelings about selling my Yamaha kit just on the strength of the kick drum. Easily the most agreeable kick drum sound I've ever mixed in the studio. Plenty of snap, and very controlled low-end. Not the loudest kick drum in the world but I'll never play either live or in the studio without a mic in it so that's the least of my concerns.

It seems that the popular size for kick drums in the past 10-15 years is the 22"x18" configuration. That being said I may be tempted to make my new kick drum a replica of my current Yamaha. That is to say: Maple shell and 16" deep instead of 18". Anyone here have a lot of experience recording 18" deep kick drums? Are there any remote benefits to the 18" depth with the possible exception of volume (which is not really a concern of mine.) Also something to consider is a 16" is cheaper and smaller, both things that I like.

Final question on the kick drum: Maple vs. Birch. I am pretty certain I am going to go with birch shells for the toms, but again for the kick drums I am thinking of maybe going a different direction and getting a maple shell to replicate my current kick drum. it may not really matter much in the end, but if this is the last drum kit I ever buy (and I really hope it is) then I want to get it right.

For the toms it is a bit easier. I know I'm going for birch shells (unless someone makes a very strong argument to the contrary.) because of the fundamental difference between maple and birch:

Internet wrote:Maple shells naturally have long and slow sustains ratios causing a warm and resonant tone throughout the drum. The addition of reinforcing hoops to maple shells provide strength, definition, and focus the overall sound. All reinforcing rings vary in size depending on the drums dimension. Birchwood shells tend to contain opposite tonal properties from maple. Birch naturally has short, fast sustain ratios causing a higher pitch and greater attack velocity. We do not install the reinforcing rings on the birch shells because of the overkill and choke that would result in doing so.


I like all of what birch would offer to my toms.

As for sizes, I have pretty much decided that I'm going with what some drum company calls "F.A.S.T." tom sizes. These sizes are shallower than standard shells of days past but seem to be somewhat in vogue in the past decade. "FAST" tom sizes are as follows:

Internet wrote:7x8"
8x10"
9x12"
10x13"
11x14"
12x15"
13x16"
14x18"


Now within those there are only 3 toms to really pay attention to: The 10", the 12" and the 16".

My question is whether or not to bother getting the 10" though. 90% of the work I do is just 12" and 16", and in my opinion the other 10% that could use a 10" tom, one could probably still use a 12" tom and no one would care. I really prefer playing a 4-piece configuration but if I'm going to make a custom kit with a custom finish, then maybe I should just got ahead a get the 10" so I have it if I need it.

I am really not interested in getting a 14" tom though. I'm pretty sure that is only useful 0.00247% of the time.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:09 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:... if this is the last drum kit I ever buy (and I really hope it is) then I want to get it right.
I hope you're right, although history has proven this to be harder to do, than to say. :-P

Those are some deep considerations (pun unintended)... I'll have to get back to you when I have time to post a decent response.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:33 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:... if this is the last drum kit I ever buy (and I really hope it is) then I want to get it right.
I hope you're right, although history has proven this to be harder to do, than to say. :-P

I have to sell both my kits to raise the money to buy this new kit. Once I have sold those kits, I won't have any money to buy future kits. I refuse to spend actual money on drums... Basically if I ever have that much disposable cash down the road Joline will probably just buy a pool with it...haha. So, no. This is my last chance.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:Those are some deep considerations (pun unintended)... I'll have to get back to you when I have time to post a decent response.

I appreciate your time.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:27 am

*Warning* Drum sizes for me are given as depth x diameter... Too many years of reading it that way to change now. :-P

So many generalizations about drum shells, and most of them are wrong about half the time IME, so what does that tell you? Nothing beats experience with different shell types, sizes and brands. I will say that different companies, DW included, will spin the marketing to suit what they are doing production wise, regardless of the reasons they actually do it. A classic example is the "reinforcing rings VS no reinforcing rings". Companies that don't use them will say "our drums don't need reinforcing rings" and companies that do will say "our drums are made better by reinforcing rings"...

Before I get too far from your specific questions, let's confront some of the details. You have decided on a choice between 100% maple, or 100% birch shells for toms and bass drum(s). I hope you are making a sonic choice based on hearing the particular construction of these two varieties of whichever model(s) you are looking at. In essence, I find most written descriptions about the differences between birch and maple to often exaggerate the differences between the two, as well as often being contrary to what my experience is with different types of drums. The DW wording of "Birchwood shells tend to contain opposite tonal properties from maple." is one that jumps out at me as highly questionable as an accurate observation across the board.

I developed a taste for birch drums early on with many of my most memorable listening/playing experiences being drums of birch construction. I have heard many drums of different shell types and construction that I have loved, and would work for many types of gigs, as well as many drums that I didn't like for any number of reasons. The taste I had and continue to have for birch drums is mostly just that, a developed bias. That being said, birch VS maple for me is a far smaller factor than many others including some you are also considering.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you start looking around, you'll find all too many reputable sources with pretty broad writings on this very topic. A preference from your own experience, or a recommendation from someone who knows your tastes are the best to go on. Have you heard many drums in front of you, and recorded that were birch, that you found the toms to be exceptional compared to the average? Have you experienced bass drums of maple or birch that left an impact on you leading you in one direction or the other? If the answer is no to either, you will have a tough time being certain that you are getting your actual most preferred setup. Both are certainly capable of excellent results in all styles IMO.

Sizes is a whole other kettle of fish. The DW "FAST" is an interesting acronym because it describes exactly what shallower drums are for me. A quicker fundamental tone the speaks in a faster way than deeper alternatives. Coming of age as a player in an era where "standard" sizes grew deeper and deeper, and what I learned on became "jazz" sizes, was an ugly time. Even in the late '90s when I bought my MBX set, of mostly older "standard sizes" (8x12, 9x13, etc.) it was impossible for me to get a 16" floor tom shallower than a 16"x16", and it remains my least favourite drum in the kit. For a while it seemed like things were never going to change, but then like all trends, shallow drums became cool again. Your specific question about bass drum. 22" diameter has become the standard in the same way that 14" snare drums did. It appears the most flexible of the sizes. My absolute favourite 22" was actually a 14"x22". I have also heard many shallow bass drums including some 12" deep that were absolutely stellar. While I agree that 18"x22" has become most common in new "sets", I didn't really start seeing that filtering down until the last 5yrs or so. 16"x22" is still super common to run into on most types of gigs. I would have to answer that if you are looking for "flexible", a 16"x22" is still the way to go, especially if that is what your Yamaha is configured as, and you are happy and confident with it.

For a little variety regarding bass drum size, this thread on another network jumped into my head... http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/19404650

Tom sizes and configs are a personal thing. I chose 5 toms with my masters kit so I would have flexibility to do anything I wanted, as a guy who likes playing different setups. 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, is what I can choose from. As an example of personal preference, I more often use the 14" as the largest tom as opposed to the 16" as you suggest. Folks using four piece setups with a tiny front tom, and a huge floor tom seems really foreign to me, but I see it. Your choices should definitely reflect what you personally like, and what you think will suffice for the types of gigs you will play.

As someone who went through a similar experience once, my only real regrets after the dust settled were the aforementioned floor tom depth, and the fact that I let an 18" matching bass drum slip through my fingers as it is something that I have wished I had on many occasions. I will caution that what I have seen, what causes the luster to fade from a "last kit I'll ever buy" choice is often functionality issues, as opposed to the ones you take the most amount of time thinking about. Many hours considering colours, shell thickness, reinforcing rings, sizes, and you end up hating the mounting hardware, or lug threading/casings, or hoops, or...

I hope at least some of this is helpful and making some sense. It's certainly a great chance for us to talk drums. I don't follow new drum gear like I did years ago so I look forward to the conversation continuing.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:09 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:*Warning* Drum sizes for me are given as depth x diameter... Too many years of reading it that way to change now. :-P

So many generalizations about drum shells, and most of them are wrong about half the time IME, so what does that tell you? Nothing beats experience with different shell types, sizes and brands. I will say that different companies, DW included, will spin the marketing to suit what they are doing production wise, regardless of the reasons they actually do it. A classic example is the "reinforcing rings VS no reinforcing rings". Companies that don't use them will say "our drums don't need reinforcing rings" and companies that do will say "our drums are made better by reinforcing rings"...

Before I get too far from your specific questions, let's confront some of the details. You have decided on a choice between 100% maple, or 100% birch shells for toms and bass drum(s). I hope you are making a sonic choice based on hearing the particular construction of these two varieties of whichever model(s) you are looking at. In essence, I find most written descriptions about the differences between birch and maple to often exaggerate the differences between the two, as well as often being contrary to what my experience is with different types of drums. The DW wording of "Birchwood shells tend to contain opposite tonal properties from maple." is one that jumps out at me as highly questionable as an accurate observation across the board.

I developed a taste for birch drums early on with many of my most memorable listening/playing experiences being drums of birch construction. I have heard many drums of different shell types and construction that I have loved, and would work for many types of gigs, as well as many drums that I didn't like for any number of reasons. The taste I had and continue to have for birch drums is mostly just that, a developed bias. That being said, birch VS maple for me is a far smaller factor than many others including some you are also considering.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you start looking around, you'll find all too many reputable sources with pretty broad writings on this very topic. A preference from your own experience, or a recommendation from someone who knows your tastes are the best to go on. Have you heard many drums in front of you, and recorded that were birch, that you found the toms to be exceptional compared to the average? Have you experienced bass drums of maple or birch that left an impact on you leading you in one direction or the other? If the answer is no to either, you will have a tough time being certain that you are getting your actual most preferred setup. Both are certainly capable of excellent results in all styles IMO.


Personally I agree with this quite a bit. that being said I liked Warren's toms better than mine when the only appreciable difference (after I tuned his) was the shell construction. Was the difference huge? Not by any stretch, but it was enough for me to really want a birch kit. The difference that I heard was what other have generally stated.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:Sizes is a whole other kettle of fish. The DW "FAST" is an interesting acronym because it describes exactly what shallower drums are for me. A quicker fundamental tone the speaks in a faster way than deeper alternatives. Coming of age as a player in an era where "standard" sizes grew deeper and deeper, and what I learned on became "jazz" sizes, was an ugly time. Even in the late '90s when I bought my MBX set, of mostly older "standard sizes" (8x12, 9x13, etc.) it was impossible for me to get a 16" floor tom shallower than a 16"x16", and it remains my least favourite drum in the kit. For a while it seemed like things were never going to change, but then like all trends, shallow drums became cool again. Your specific question about bass drum. 22" diameter has become the standard in the same way that 14" snare drums did. It appears the most flexible of the sizes. My absolute favourite 22" was actually a 14"x22". I have also heard many shallow bass drums including some 12" deep that were absolutely stellar. While I agree that 18"x22" has become most common in new "sets", I didn't really start seeing that filtering down until the last 5yrs or so. 16"x22" is still super common to run into on most types of gigs. I would have to answer that if you are looking for "flexible", a 16"x22" is still the way to go, especially if that is what your Yamaha is configured as, and you are happy and confident with it.

For a little variety regarding bass drum size, this thread on another network jumped into my head... http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/topic/19404650

Tom sizes and configs are a personal thing. I chose 5 toms with my masters kit so I would have flexibility to do anything I wanted, as a guy who likes playing different setups. 10, 12, 13, 14, 16, is what I can choose from. As an example of personal preference, I more often use the 14" as the largest tom as opposed to the 16" as you suggest. Folks using four piece setups with a tiny front tom, and a huge floor tom seems really foreign to me, but I see it. Your choices should definitely reflect what you personally like, and what you think will suffice for the types of gigs you will play.


Two reasons for the shallower toms... First: Positioning. I have standard toms and they are harder to position than I would like. Second: Sound. The rack toms are a little better in this regard but both of my floor toms are square and making them sound good is a chore that I don't want to deal with every time. In my experience I just find shallower toms easier to tune.

As for the 10", I'd either 12" and 16" or I would go 10", 12" and 16". The interval I usually use between 16" and 12" is that of a fifth. With my Yamaha kit I am easily able to get a full octave between the 10" and 16", and the 14" would be a major third up from the 16". Not that I would ever tune the toms to a specific pitch, but I would tune them all relative to the lowest I could get the 16" comfortably. So I'm really not sure I'd miss that major third much...


Malcolm Boyce wrote:As someone who went through a similar experience once, my only real regrets after the dust settled were the aforementioned floor tom depth, and the fact that I let an 18" matching bass drum slip through my fingers as it is something that I have wished I had on many occasions. I will caution that what I have seen, what causes the luster to fade from a "last kit I'll ever buy" choice is often functionality issues, as opposed to the ones you take the most amount of time thinking about. Many hours considering colours, shell thickness, reinforcing rings, sizes, and you end up hating the mounting hardware, or lug threading/casings, or hoops, or...


Good point but I know the hardware pretty much inside and out. Besides I am pretty sure the best way to mount a tom is the same way one mounts a snare. Also I am not a fan of suspended floor toms. YMMV. For hoops, I have learned that Die-Cast hoops are not for me. That was potentially the worst investment I ever made. Everything else you mentioned is covered by my experience with the hardware in question.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:I hope at least some of this is helpful and making some sense. It's certainly a great chance for us to talk drums. I don't follow new drum gear like I did years ago so I look forward to the conversation continuing.


I don't follow this stuff anymore either, but it's a good dialog, and once we get this sorted out we can talk cymbals!
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:51 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:...that being said I liked Warren's toms better than mine when the only appreciable difference (after I tuned his) was the shell construction. Was the difference huge? Not by any stretch, but it was enough for me to really want a birch kit. The difference that I heard was what other have generally stated.
Recording Custom drums are some of my earliest memories of being super impressed with drums sounds. Even with "power" sizes, those drums had/have something that really worked. I was genuinely surprised that Yamaha discontinued them. In the mid-late '80s, great birch drums were pretty plentiful so I was exposed to many examples that helped solidify my preference. The '90s was the beginning of the "birch drums are inferior to maple" years. Many of us knew better.

Mathieu Benoit wrote:Two reasons for the shallower toms... First: Positioning. I have standard toms and they are harder to position than I would like. Second: Sound. The rack toms are a little better in this regard but both of my floor toms are square and making them sound good is a chore that I don't want to deal with every time. In my experience I just find shallower toms easier to tune.
As a person of the vertically challenged persuasion, I can describe to you the pain of mounting toms with square sizes on a 22" bass drum mount after learning on kits with toms 4" shorter. I never owned any that deep, but I certainly had to play on 'em.

Your description of shallower toms being "easier to tune" is basically because deeper shells don't naturally produce what you are looking for and you are trying to compensate for that with tuning. I know because I've had to deal with that since the dawn of "power" size drums. My 16"x16" floor tom is a perfect example.

Mathieu Benoit wrote:As for the 10", I'd either 12" and 16" or I would go 10", 12" and 16". The interval I usually use between 16" and 12" is that of a fifth. With my Yamaha kit I am easily able to get a full octave between the 10" and 16", and the 14" would be a major third up from the 16". Not that I would ever tune the toms to a specific pitch, but I would tune them all relative to the lowest I could get the 16" comfortably. So I'm really not sure I'd miss that major third much...
I typically tune for tension and let the drum speak in it's own range which present as their own natural intervals. I do like toms that allow tuning into many ranges but in a set I find things sit better when toms are tuned in a range where their tensions are more closely matched.


Mathieu Benoit wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:As someone who went through a similar experience once, my only real regrets after the dust settled were the aforementioned floor tom depth, and the fact that I let an 18" matching bass drum slip through my fingers as it is something that I have wished I had on many occasions. I will caution that what I have seen, what causes the luster to fade from a "last kit I'll ever buy" choice is often functionality issues, as opposed to the ones you take the most amount of time thinking about. Many hours considering colours, shell thickness, reinforcing rings, sizes, and you end up hating the mounting hardware, or lug threading/casings, or hoops, or...


Good point but I know the hardware pretty much inside and out. Besides I am pretty sure the best way to mount a tom is the same way one mounts a snare. Also I am not a fan of suspended floor toms. YMMV. For hoops, I have learned that Die-Cast hoops are not for me. That was potentially the worst investment I ever made. Everything else you mentioned is covered by my experience with the hardware in question.
Cast hoops are another one of those things often marketed as "better" than flanged hoops but is very much a choice to be made like many others... In context.

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:I hope at least some of this is helpful and making some sense. It's certainly a great chance for us to talk drums. I don't follow new drum gear like I did years ago so I look forward to the conversation continuing.


I don't follow this stuff anymore either, but it's a good dialog, and once we get this sorted out we can talk cymbals!
So many cymbals these days... It's crazy!
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:04 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:It seems that the popular size for kick drums in the past 10-15 years is the 22"x18" configuration. That being said I may be tempted to make my new kick drum a replica of my current Yamaha. That is to say: Maple shell and 16" deep instead of 18". Anyone here have a lot of experience recording 18" deep kick drums? Are there any remote benefits to the 18" depth with the possible exception of volume (which is not really a concern of mine.) Also something to consider is a 16" is cheaper and smaller, both things that I like.
I meant to say that IME, the difference between 16"x22" and 18"x22" is mostly "in the room" as opposed to what you are getting from a miced up kit. I'm speaking assuming that we're talking about a ported front head, otherwise the difference would be much greater.

Honestly, some people just like the look of the bigger drums. More POWER! Drum companies like the trend for the same reason you already mention. Price... 8-)

Speaking of trends, concert toms are making a bit of comeback these days... This is a fun site to take a look at: http://www.bermudaschwartz.com/concerttoms/
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:34 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Your description of shallower toms being "easier to tune" is basically because deeper shells don't naturally produce what you are looking for and you are trying to compensate for that with tuning. I know because I've had to deal with that since the dawn of "power" size drums. My 16"x16" floor tom is a perfect example.

Just this line was worth the price of admission itself.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:I typically tune for tension and let the drum speak in it's own range which present as their own natural intervals. I do like toms that allow tuning into many ranges but in a set I find things sit better when toms are tuned in a range where their tensions are more closely matched.

I have never had to make too much of a compromise regarding tension vs. pitch. That being said you are spot on that tension trumps pitch in the sense that if that drum simply can't achieve the pitch you are going for then you need to work around that. With my Maple custom kit I've never had a problem getting the intervals I want though. Now if I get a DW kit (which isn't a forgone conclusion) they will put together a shell kit that is complimentary to begin with so I'll just go with whatever the stamp says and I should be fine in theory.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:So many cymbals these days... It's crazy!

Yeah, especially if you venture out of just the Sabian/Zildjian scope. I've been all over the place on this...

Also about the kick drum thing. I just don't agree with the assessment that an 18" deep kick drum sounds any better than a 16" deep one at a diameter of 22".
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:29 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:Now if I get a DW kit (which isn't a forgone conclusion) they will put together a shell kit that is complimentary to begin with so I'll just go with whatever the stamp says and I should be fine in theory.
Yeah... That whole "this is the note of the drum shell" deal is a nice shtick, but I've never bought into that as a logical premise. YMMV

Mathieu Benoit wrote:Also about the kick drum thing. I just don't agree with the assessment that an 18" deep kick drum sounds any better than a 16" deep one at a diameter of 22".

Ditto. Seriously... I wish you could hear a great 14"x22". One of my all time favs was a Recording Custom drum with those dimensions. Killer! I know I wouldn't be picking an 18"x22" if I had my choice of whatever size & drum.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:32 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:Now if I get a DW kit (which isn't a forgone conclusion) they will put together a shell kit that is complimentary to begin with so I'll just go with whatever the stamp says and I should be fine in theory.
Yeah... That whole "this is the note of the drum shell" deal is a nice shtick, but I've never bought into that as a logical premise. YMMV


Of course, ears before eyes in all cases.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:47 am

Hey Malcolm! What are your thoughts on mounting toms on a bass drum? I know that it has been taboo for a number of years, but the benefits logistically make me wonder... Is the sonic detriment real?
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:58 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:Hey Malcolm! What are your thoughts on mounting toms on a bass drum? I know that it has been taboo for a number of years, but the benefits logistically make me wonder... Is the sonic detriment real?

What do you perceive the "sonic detriments" of mounting toms and such on a bass drum are? I hear many opinions on this but I am of the mindset that everything is a trade off in one form or another.

I seriously miss a mount on the bass drum of my masters kit... :-( Would have one if I could but it wasn't available as an option on the thinner shelled drums of the day.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Alain Benoit » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:59 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Your description of shallower toms being "easier to tune" is basically because deeper shells don't naturally produce what you are looking for and you are trying to compensate for that with tuning. I know because I've had to deal with that since the dawn of "power" size drums. My 16"x16" floor tom is a perfect example.


Yip.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:I typically tune for tension and let the drum speak in it's own range which present as their own natural intervals. I do like toms that allow tuning into many ranges but in a set I find things sit better when toms are tuned in a range where their tensions are more closely matched.


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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Alain Benoit » Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:04 pm

I like my kick drums like I like my 70 girls in heaven, virgin.

I do not like toms on a snare stand, I've tried this and in every configuration, loose, tight, different stands, angles and toms, sounded better (more resonant and less choked) w/o the stand. of course, YMMV.

I would urge you to try a bubinga shell before committing to either birch or maple. I've only ever played two bubinga kits, a Sonor and a ddrum, they both blew my mind.

My first experience with a quality kit was also a Yamaha Recording Custom.

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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:02 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:Hey Malcolm! What are your thoughts on mounting toms on a bass drum? I know that it has been taboo for a number of years, but the benefits logistically make me wonder... Is the sonic detriment real?

What do you perceive the "sonic detriments" of mounting toms and such on a bass drum are? I hear many opinions on this but I am of the mindset that everything is a trade off in one form or another.

I seriously miss a mount on the bass drum of my masters kit... :-( Would have one if I could but it wasn't available as an option on the thinner shelled drums of the day.


I perceive the detriment to be minimal in the grand scheme of things, but really I only noticed that the vibration of the kick drum would make the toms vibrate causing them to produce a slight ring. One thing I never noticed was any appreciable difference in the sound of the toms or the kick. That being said I haven't mounted toms on my kick in a long but mostly because I "thought" it was better, not because I knew it was.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:15 pm

Alain Benoit wrote:I like my kick drums like I like my 70 girls in heaven, virgin.


I'm just wondering if the sonic benefits (if any) outweigh the practicality of being able to mount toms without a whole other stand.

Alain Benoit wrote:I do not like toms on a snare stand, I've tried this and in every configuration, loose, tight, different stands, angles and toms, sounded better (more resonant and less choked) w/o the stand. of course, YMMV.

I recently switched to snare stand for rack tom, and in my case with the terrible Y.E.S.S. mounting system that choked my 12" tom, I finally have a drum that I don't have to fight with. That being said with good hardware I guess that shouldn't matter as much.

Alain Benoit wrote:I would urge you to try a bubinga shell before committing to either birch or maple. I've only ever played two bubinga kits, a Sonor and a ddrum, they both blew my mind.


Sonor doesn't make a Bubinga kit to my knowledge, well at least not the full shell anyways... DDRUM does but first I'd have to find one, then remove all other variables before deciding that the shell itself is the X factor. Either way, I'm not going to lose by going with Birch or Maple, although I'm leaning on Birch.

I have a trip to Quebec coming up next week so I'm going to try to visit some music stores while I'm there see if I can try some different stuff out.

Alain Benoit wrote:My first experience with a quality kit was also a Yamaha Recording Custom.

A.


So I'll pt you down as a yes on Birch....lol.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:54 am

I have found a new wood composition that I really like: Maple/Mahogany.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:23 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:I have found a new wood composition that I really like: Maple/Mahogany.
Don't underestimate Birch/Mahogany as well. So many great kits that were that combo as well. Mahogany got lost in the shuffle during the years of "100%Maple" being a marketing chant but it really brings something special to the table, particularly when used in conjunction with one of the harder woods.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:39 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:I have found a new wood composition that I really like: Maple/Mahogany.
Don't underestimate Birch/Mahogany as well. So many great kits that were that combo as well. Mahogany got lost in the shuffle during the years of "100%Maple" being a marketing chant but it really brings something special to the table, particularly when used in conjunction with one of the harder woods.


Yeah... Mind blowing difference really by adding the Mahogany. I haven't heard the birch/mahogany combo yet...but the combination with maple is really something special.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby macrae11 » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:47 pm

What was the specific kit?
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:14 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:I have found a new wood composition that I really like: Maple/Mahogany.
Don't underestimate Birch/Mahogany as well. So many great kits that were that combo as well. Mahogany got lost in the shuffle during the years of "100%Maple" being a marketing chant but it really brings something special to the table, particularly when used in conjunction with one of the harder woods.


Yeah... Mind blowing difference really by adding the Mahogany. I haven't heard the birch/mahogany combo yet...but the combination with maple is really something special.

People who say things like "night and day" difference between Birch & Maple have never heard Mahogany or other similar variations. Pearl had a Masters Mahogany kit in the late '90s that was truly amazing sounding but was right out of left field at a time when everyone was in "100%Maple" mode... I think several companies are offering mahogany drums these days; either partial, or full construction. I still don't see/hear enough of them. It's nice to see trends changing to some different varieties again.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:17 am

Alright! I finally sold my PDP kit last night. Wanted $2000 and managed to get $1950. a good chunk of that was apparently earmarked for a dog?! But whatever... still plenty left over for a down payment.

Here is what I've decided: Maple/Mahogany for the toms and Kick. 16"x22" kick, 8"x10" rack tom, 9"x12" rack tom, and 14"x16" floor tom. (depth x diameter)

Not sure if I want the kick to be virgin, will decide in the next few days.

Also not sure on the finish, I'm looking at two options that will really come down to price:

Broken Glass Finish ply (basically a wrap)
Image

Candy to Black Fade over Mapa Burl
Image

I am asking for a quote to see what the difference in price is. The finish ply is something I'll be less anal about over the years so that's also a consideration.

Thoughts?
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Alain Benoit » Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:09 am

Satin finish. Less expensive than lacquer, easier to keep clean, more scratch resistant.

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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:46 pm

I think I would get tired of the more exotic looks. Of the two pics, I rather like the "Broken Glass" finish.
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Re: Help me make a drum kit!

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:54 pm

I watched this video a while back and was just reminded of it again by this thread. Lot's of emphasis on the wood construction, and some pretty great examples with differences you will really hear.

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