Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Tech talk about audio recording and live stage production.
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Amp Modeling / Emulation... Ready for prime time?

Yes
4
33%
Not Yet
6
50%
Never
2
17%
 
Total votes : 12

Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:12 pm

macrae11 wrote:

If I were you Christian I would find a software solution that works for me. Not only do most of them generally sound better than a POD, but they're upgradeable, and they make things like reamping, and trying out guitar cabs on all kinds of different sources so easy.


We have a Guitar POD. I'm actually trying to convince Alain to sell it now that we aquired the 5150+ and the JCM800. I personally hate the thing. Unless you want to buy it, in which case it's awesome.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:22 pm

macrae11 wrote:With the POD I find you spend an insufferable amount of time tweaking just to get something usable.
I actually looked at some threads comparing the POD X3 to the POD HD; a lot of people would agree with your statement on the X3, but the HD (which supposedly has much better tones...don't all new models? j/k) was supposed to be a lot easier to get good sounds with right away. Do you remember which version you were using, Andrew?

Same question to Matt, in fact! Which model may be up for grabs?
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:51 pm

I don't have a ton of time on the Pod specifically, but I would certainly agree that a good amp is quicker in many ways. I do think that until you're getting into a certain class of amp that modeling is a hipper way to go for most novice recordists. Comparing a 'Pod' to a Bassman is one thing, but comparing it to what most home musicians are plugging their gtr through is another thing altogether.

With modelers, and software based anything, I do think back to Roger Nichols talking about "presets" and how he and Walter Becker would audition gear and only pop through presets. The idea being that if the people that build the thing can't make it sound any good, how much time is it going to take us to make it sound like something? I have found sever gtr modelers explained by that concept to me over the years.
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:55 pm

macrae11 wrote:I still haven't heard a model that convinces me it's a real amp while playing and listening back.
When you're using modelers, are you with or without speaker cabs? I find that most when used in the sense of replacing the "tone" generating aspect of an amp to be most satisfying.

Modeler > Power Amp > Speaker Cab > Mic

This also allows what I believe to be missing from most people's evaluations of modelers... The interaction between speaker and instrument.
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:58 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:One thing to add, is that we pretty much exclusively have tube amps here too, which is also a factor.
Tubes are one aspect that plays a part in that "volume" thing, but the complexity of what happens when you excite a speaker enclosure to a certain volume is most certainly a larger factor.
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:23 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:When you're using modelers, are you with or without speaker cabs? I find that most when used in the sense of replacing the "tone" generating aspect of an amp to be most satisfying.

Modeler > Power Amp > Speaker Cab > Mic

This also allows what I believe to be missing from most people's evaluations of modelers... The interaction between speaker and instrument.

This was exactly how we had out Pod Pro set up... and it's still nto something I would go back to willingly.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:Tubes are one aspect that plays a part in that "volume" thing, but the complexity of what happens when you excite a speaker enclosure to a certain volume is most certainly a larger factor.

I have no way of knowing which is the bigger factor in that equation because I don't use tube amps without a speaker of some kind attached to them. That may be more of an Alain question... Of course I understand that in any event the enclosure plays a big part.

That being said I'm curious about circumstances where a lower volume is more appropriate sonically. Can you give me an example? The only time I think that I would record a guitar amp at a lower volume is if something wasn't preventing me from turning it up for other reasons.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:26 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:When you're using modelers, are you with or without speaker cabs? I find that most when used in the sense of replacing the "tone" generating aspect of an amp to be most satisfying.

Modeler > Power Amp > Speaker Cab > Mic

This also allows what I believe to be missing from most people's evaluations of modelers... The interaction between speaker and instrument.

This was exactly how we had out Pod Pro set up... and it's still nto something I would go back to willingly.
Important to note that by "power amp" I don't mean a traditional "guitar amplifier".

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:Tubes are one aspect that plays a part in that "volume" thing, but the complexity of what happens when you excite a speaker enclosure to a certain volume is most certainly a larger factor.

I have no way of knowing which is the bigger factor in that equation because I don't use tube amps without a speaker of some kind attached to them. That may be more of an Alain question...That being said I'm curious about circumstances where a lower volume is more appropriate sonically. Can you give me an example? The only time I think that I would record a guitar amp at a lower volume is if something wasn't preventing me from turning it up for other reasons.
I believe you have already answered the "volume" question. Where it sounds good is the "correct" level.
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:31 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:Important to note that by "power amp" I don't mean a traditional "guitar amplifier".

I guess that may not go without saying, but yes that's what I meant.

Malcolm Boyce wrote:I believe you have already answered the "volume" question. Where it sounds good is the "correct" level.

I know, but anecdotally have you yourself come across a situation where you are not restricted to the volume you can have an amp set to and it sounds best at when it's super quiet? I haven't so I was curious as to other people's experience.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:05 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:I know, but anecdotally have you yourself come across a situation where you are not restricted to the volume you can have an amp set to and it sounds best at when it's super quiet? I haven't so I was curious as to other people's experience.
Speaking specifically about "volume" in the space, I don't think I've ever said "Let's turn that down and see if it sounds better...".
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby macrae11 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:52 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:I still haven't heard a model that convinces me it's a real amp while playing and listening back.
When you're using modelers, are you with or without speaker cabs?

I've done both, and like Matt said, it's not something I would do given any other option.


On the volume note, I have turned amplifiers down on occasion. It's usually a matter of clean gain, using a sensitive microphone, or once in a while because I want a "small" sound.
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:32 pm

macrae11 wrote:On the volume note, I have turned amplifiers down on occasion. It's usually a matter of clean gain, using a sensitive microphone, or once in a while because I want a "small" sound.

I can understand the first two points, but what is a "small" sound and why would I want it? I'm not trying to be difficult, just curious.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby macrae11 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:32 am

Typically to contrast with a "big" sound. Making the guitar sound small and wimpy so the big climax seems even bigger. I've even recorded an electric guitar acoustically and blended that with the amp signal to make it seems smaller by comparison.
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Scott DeVarenne » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:12 pm

There were pictures to show my guitar/emulator/amp setup. I've edited the post because there were broken image links and since it's now inaccurate I shan't bother to fix it. It was a Boss GT10 plugged into the effects loop return of a 15w tube amp.
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Scott DeVarenne » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:50 am

I saw one of these on Ebay, last night. Reading the description, which I figured came from the manufacturer's website, I figured it was a bunch of hooey. However, I looked a little deeper and it seems like it may be for the realz.
Some of the links are dudes, who you may or may not trust, talking about the Kemper.
http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang ... fined.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tURlgz6W ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErZfk5sz82A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uulzb3fZ ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... f9Ovw&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqsngxPN ... ure=relmfu
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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:22 am

Scott DeVarenne wrote:I saw one of these on Ebay, last night. Reading the description, which I figured came from the manufacturer's website, I figured it was a bunch of hooey. However, I looked a little deeper and it seems like it may be for the realz.
Some of the links are dudes, who you may or may not trust, talking about the Kemper.
http://kemper-amps.com/page/render/lang ... fined.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tURlgz6W ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErZfk5sz82A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uulzb3fZ ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=en ... f9Ovw&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqsngxPN ... ure=relmfu
Huge buzz about this thing right now. Seems to be the next step in the evolution.... "Profiling" amps.... 8-)
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Re: Guitar/Bass Amp Modeling and Emulation

Postby Christian LeBlanc » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:43 am

So is the Kemper like a hardware version of software amp sims and cab impulses? That's pretty decent.
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