any good new albums that aren't loud?

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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:07 am

clinton wrote:nope, but using the arguement that writing your own music makes it good is weak. Hence my example. The Doobie Brothers wrote their own material too.

Hahaha... good point.
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Postby dylanger » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:11 am

It would be different if I said I like him because he writes his own music, but I didn't, I said the music HE writes is good.
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Postby clinton » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:12 am

if you like it, that's all that matters.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:17 am

clinton wrote:if you like it, that's all that matters.


I like his string of hot celebrity girlfriends and his live blues album with Steve Jordan on the drums. I can totally do without "Your Body is a Wonderland" though...
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Postby macrae11 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:21 am

clinton wrote:Keesha (or Ke$ha or whatever) co-wrote all her stuff but that does not make it something even resembling good (" boys trying to touch my junk" etc).


Keesha "co-wrote" all her material sure. Just like Carrie Underwood "co-writes" her material. ie they happened to be in the room while the song happened to be written. I agree with you though Clinton, being a good writer has very little if anything to do with being a good artist. Aretha Franklin anybody?

But if you break down John's respective talents, I think they hold up very well. As a guitar player he's phenomenal. Just check out the solo for Axis, Bold as Love, the riff for Neon, his live blues stuff etc. As a producer/arranger, his work with Steve Jordan is hooky, ear catching, well crafted pop. It's hard to say how much influence he had with a power house like Steve, but he's at very least doing the guitar arrangements which are stellar. As a singer, he's fairly mediocre, but delivers well. His song writing is debatable, but for the most part I really enjoy it.

I will have to check out those artists that you mentioned though Clinton.
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Postby clinton » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:23 am

macrae11 wrote:
for the most part I really enjoy it.



well there ya go then.

When I was younger I really liked The Eagles. This lead friends to suggest other music that I might enjoy. Which lead to disccovering even more music. As my exposure to more music grew, I became more critical of what I listen to (there's a lot out there, you have to be choosey about what you commit to). I now have been exposed to enough music that I have developed a disdain for The Eagles. Sure they had some good tunes and the guitar playing was great (Joe Walsh anyone?) but it's just so insincere and glossy. I'd rather put my time and effort into quality art that really has something to say. This is basically how I feel about John Mayer (not to mention that this is also the most I've ever had to think about him).

Anyway, if you dig it, cool. I'm sure there is better pop music out there if you are willing to seek it out but since the people who make it aren't media celebrities, it probably isn't going to come to you.

I hope that makes sense.
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Postby macrae11 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:26 am

clinton wrote:

well there ya go then.

When I was younger I really liked The Eagles. This lead friends to suggest other music that I might enjoy. Which lead to disccovering even more music. As my exposure to more music grew, I became more critical of what I listen to (there's a lot out there, you have to be choosey about what you commit to). I now have been exposed to enough music that I have developed a disdain for The Eagles. Sure they had some good tunes and the guitar playing was great (Joe Walsh anyone?) but it's just so insincere and glossy. I'd rather put my time and effort into quality art that really has something to say. This is basically how I feel about John Mayer (not to mention that this is also the most I've ever had to think about him).

Anyway, if you dig it, cool. I'm sure there is better pop music out there if you are willing to seek it out but since the people who make it aren't media celebrities, it probably isn't going to come to you.

I hope that makes sense.


Makes total sense, and I get where you're coming from. So far I certainly feel the same about his new album, Battle Studies. Feels a bit overproduced, and not much soul to it. Only listened through it twice though, so I should give it some time. Continuum, is a work of art IMO though, and I hope he goes back to this area, although I'm sure it doesn't sell as well, because radio won't really play it, and it's generally over most 14 year old girls heads musically. In fact the radio single they picked from that album, I think is the single worst song on there.

I totally dig finding music that's off the beaten path, and I can't even listen to the radio anymore, and so I get listening to music that's not on the public's radar. My issue is people who get this thrill out of listening to unknown artists, simply because they're unknown. And because they went through this hunt to find them, they have a sense of superiority, over the unwashed masses. Then if the masses do latch onto someone, they're automatically less reputable, simply because a lot of people know them, which I think is total BS.

It would be interesting to do a study of when it became hip to diss mainstream music, simply because it was mainstream. It seems in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and even into the 80's in some genres, pop music was what was strived for. Not pop as in the Chantrelles, but Motown, the Beatles, Elvis, Johnny Cash, Miles Davis, Zep, etc.
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Postby clinton » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:31 am

I think you know enough of me to know that I am anything but hip. I certainly do not care if an "artist" is mainstream or not (Springsteen is one of my faves of all time) but I do care if it's any good. I won't pick my new music from a limited pool of what Clear Channel deems to be good. I'll educate myself and pick something that I feel is quality regardless of if it's huge or an unknown.
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Postby Christian LeBlanc » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:35 am

macrae11 wrote:It would be interesting to do a study of when it became hip to diss mainstream music, simply because it was mainstream. It seems in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and even into the 80's in some genres, pop music was what was strived for. Not pop as in the Chantrelles, but Motown, the Beatles, Elvis, Johnny Cash, Miles Davis, Zep, etc.


Rap is about the only genre that actively and whole-heartedly embraces "selling out," and deserves a place in such a study.

I could try to justify my love of The Cure by calling it alternative, but really, they've always written pop music, some of which was Top 40 at the time.

You know a band that had a lot of radio play, but never should have? Blue October ("Hate Me," "Into the Ocean"). First 30 times I heard them, I had that 'top 40' bias keeping me from liking them. I'll admit it. But then my wife pointed out that their vocalist sounded a lot like Nash the Slash, and with that new foothold, I re-evaluated them, and am I ever glad I did. They've written some of the best pop/rock I've enjoyed in years, with lyrics that make Sylvia Plath and "The Bell Jar" look well-adjusted.
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Postby macrae11 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:36 am

clinton wrote:I think you know enough of me to know that I am anything but hip. I certainly do not care if an "artist" is mainstream or not (Springsteen is one of my faves of all time) but I do care if it's any good. I won't pick my new music from a limited pool of what Clear Channel deems to be good. I'll educate myself and pick something that I feel is quality regardless of it's huge or an unknown.


Sorry I didn't mean to imply that you were a "hipster" and looked down your nose at mainstream music. Just that I find many people do, and that JM is an artist that gets lambasted for that a lot. If you haven't, I do recommend sitting down and listening straight through Continuum(skip track one though) on a good system. If you don't see what I see, than we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:04 pm

clinton wrote:...I'm sure there is better pop music out there if you are willing to seek it out but since the people who make it aren't media celebrities, it probably isn't going to come to you...
How does one go about figuring what this "better" you speak of is?
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Postby macrae11 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:27 pm

Christian LeBlanc wrote:... with lyrics that make Sylvia Plath and "The Bell Jar" look well-adjusted.


As a side note, what a phenomenal book!
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Postby clinton » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:59 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
clinton wrote:...I'm sure there is better pop music out there if you are willing to seek it out but since the people who make it aren't media celebrities, it probably isn't going to come to you...
How does one go about figuring what this "better" you speak of is?


is there a God? Why are we are? Is Matt gay?

c'mon man, if you have some thoughts on the subject then offer them up but don't try to put me on the spot by asking such a general question.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:15 pm

clinton wrote:is there a God? Why are we are? Is Matt gay?


1. Yes, and She's pretty hot for an omnipotent being. I mean, I'd totally rail Her.

2. Aparently to disagree about everything.

3. I'll hear your proposition before ruling it out, don't worry.
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Postby clinton » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:42 pm

hahaha....I loves ya buddy
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:10 pm

clinton wrote:hahaha....I loves ya buddy


*looks down at pants*

Welp... That answers that.
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Postby dylanger » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:10 pm

I think what malcolm meant was everyones "better" is different.

Some people can be blinded by the media. Or the hip thing. I'm just as guilty as everyone else. When I was in middle school and throughout high school I HATED AC/DC. This was mostly because thats what all the kids that were doing the poser thing were into. I couldn't stand that so I hated AC/DC. When I was in middle school and my early High School years I listened to a lot of metallica, days of the new, ect. and I will admit that it was because I didn't want to be like everyone else, and then all these kids classified themselves as "like me" because they new the words to sweet child of mine.


I go on the fender lounge forums every once and a while and I see all the time threads about how john mayer doesn't deserve to be put up there with clapton, BB king, or robert cray. I think this is absolutely stupid, people don't think hes a good guitar player because he does the pop thing and is on the pop lime light.

check out this link.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i20Y9fMT ... re=related

just completely think music and nothing else.

and for fun listen to this band!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oet_6eVKctg
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jul 08, 2010 10:38 pm

dylanger wrote:Blah, blah , blah...days of the new...blah, blah blah.


:shock:


Let's not say things we can't take back, ok?
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Postby clinton » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:34 am

dylanger wrote:
check out this link.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i20Y9fMT ... re=related

just completely think music and nothing else.



I watched it. I could not think music and nothing else. It felt insincere and while I do think John Mayer is a good guitar player, that video felt like a dude trying too hard and going through the motions. Sorry man.

Anyway, I don't want you to get the impression that I'm trying to bag on your tastes. This just doesn't speak to me and I find him cheesey. Like I said before, if you dig it, then that's great. I'm sure I listen to some stuff (or have written some stuff) that you'd absolutely hate. Different strokes etc...
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Postby dylanger » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:27 am

I don't get that impression at all. I understand where your coming from. And the stuff I've heard of yours I like, I haven't heard much but matt showed me a tune you guys were playing around on that he was mixing and it seemed cool.

Did anyone see the other link?
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:53 pm

clinton wrote:
Malcolm Boyce wrote:
clinton wrote:...I'm sure there is better pop music out there if you are willing to seek it out but since the people who make it aren't media celebrities, it probably isn't going to come to you...
How does one go about figuring what this "better" you speak of is?
.....

c'mon man, if you have some thoughts on the subject then offer them up but don't try to put me on the spot by asking such a general question.


dylanger wrote:I think what malcolm meant was everyones "better" is different.
...and maybe Dylan's "better" is John Mayer.

So when you say there is "better" music out there if you care to search for it, it sounds as if you're saying you know what is better, which is wrong in it's suggestion based merely on the fact that it's an opinion.... and nothing more.

Music can be "better" in your opinion, but if you try and present it as something more finite than that, it has a negative connotation that smacks of "I know better than you do".

While the dialogue here is great, and typically runs it's course naturally as has this thread, I probably wouldn't stroll into a forum and say...

Are you guys talking about Paul Simon, 'cause if so... ewwwwwwwwww...

...but of course, as with music, different strokes for different folks.

This isn't meant to be a me rapping anyone's knuckles response, it's just something that I felt needed to be said.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Clinton would be of the opinion that music isn't supposed to be a competition. Saying some is "better" just seems counter to that.

Is it "better is in the eye of the beholder"?
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:53 pm

dylanger wrote:Did anyone see the other link?
Which is the "other" one?
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:24 pm

I'm better than Jon Mayer. There I said it.

Now can we move on? Why isn't this in my jurisdiction anyway? We've clearly crossed into Coffee Shop/Musicians territory here... No one is arguing about the production quality.

I wanna bitch about something new, this is boring me to death...
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:37 pm

I still think John Mayer is your ultimate roll model, as far as that whole picking up the chicks thing. He just seems to do it with such impunity.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:39 pm

Drumwaiter wrote:Now can we move on? Why isn't this in my jurisdiction anyway? We've clearly crossed into Coffee Shop/Musicians territory here... No one is arguing about the production quality.
I would tend to agree. It took a turn some time ago when a new thread would probably have been warranted.

As the kids say... Whatev...
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