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[Moderator's note: I decided to split this topic from Subdivisions thread since Greg's return and my reply to his return have taken it into a new direction that I wanted to discuss in a seperate thread.]

Greg H. wrote:Subdivisions was always a favorite Rush song of mine. Even after I stopped listening to them for the most part I still really loved this song.

Welcome back!

..and congratulations on your bands recent successes state-side.

Drumwaiter wrote:Welcome back!

..and congratulations on your bands recent successes state-side.

Thank you for the welcome! I find it strange that we can succeed from one show in the states but are relatively unknown here where we've been playing for a while.

Who even cares what SJ thinks, if you guys can break the US market you can put your kids through college.

Greg H. wrote:

Drumwaiter wrote:Welcome back!

..and congratulations on your bands recent successes state-side.

Thank you for the welcome! I find it strange that we can succeed from one show in the states but are relatively unknown here where we've been playing for a while.

What happened in the States? Where did you play? Who did you impress? et cetera . . .

Crimson Chameleon wrote:What happened in the States? Where did you play? Who did you impress? et cetera . . .

Well I actually didn't do any playing, because I got landed in the hospital haha. But my bandmates played an acoustic set that was broadcast live on one of Calais's radio stations and they liked us so much that they put our single RSVP into circulation. You can check out the set and the single on our facebook page if you want:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Feedback/ ... 044?ref=ts

Greg H. wrote:

Crimson Chameleon wrote:What happened in the States? Where did you play? Who did you impress? et cetera . . .

Well I actually didn't do any playing, because I got landed in the hospital haha. But my bandmates played an acoustic set that was broadcast live on one of Calais's radio stations and they liked us so much that they put our single RSVP into circulation. You can check out the set and the single on our facebook page if you want:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Feedback/ ... 044?ref=ts

I've heard RSVP several times, it gets played on a regular rotation on that station. Very impressive! congrats!

Greg H. wrote:...my bandmates played an acoustic set that was broadcast live on one of Calais's radio stations and they liked us so much that they put our single RSVP into circulation.

You never know where that 'break' is going to come from. Clinton and Roachie were both invited to perform in that show as well... but declined. Original music can sometimes be a hard sell and opportunities to perform live in situations where media reps are present shouldn't be shrugged off as 'just another non-paying gig'.
This may not be the case for Sean and Clinton... there might have been legitimate reasons for not doing the show... just sayin'.

I agree with Jef on this one, take whatever opportunities you can whenever you can. That's the thing with kids, they are still so full of hope and excitement and that can help in finding opportunities like this.

I even heard through the grapevine that the program director has some connections as well. You never know, this could lead somewhere...

Drumwaiter wrote:..I even heard through the grapevine that the program director has some connections as well....

Not just a rumour.

Jef wrote:Not just a rumour.

Good to know. I didn't want to make too big a deal of it, but if what I heard was right, I should probably get on recording those other singles ASAP.

I'm planning on doing a weekend session and laying down 4 tracks including a rework of RSVP sometime soon. They've a couple of other songs that could be as well received IMO.

Jef wrote:

Greg H. wrote:...my bandmates played an acoustic set that was broadcast live on one of Calais's radio stations and they liked us so much that they put our single RSVP into circulation.

You never know where that 'break' is going to come from. Clinton and Roachie were both invited to perform in that show as well... but declined. Original music can sometimes be a hard sell and opportunities to perform live in situations where media reps are present shouldn't be shrugged off as 'just another non-paying gig'.
This may not be the case for Sean and Clinton... there might have been legitimate reasons for not doing the show... just sayin'.

Geesh Jef, I've been working hard for fifteen years playing in every dive and shithole this city and, many like it, have to offer. I didn't realize that my declining the show was me snubbing my nose at a non-paying gig. I could probably find enough change in the chocolate bar rack at the West side Esso to surpass what I've made from music.

Sean Roach plays music almost every single night and works harder than most people I know. I certainly don't think he was snubbing a free gig either.

I think the fact of the matter is that expecting someone to drive to Calais to play for nothing is asking a helluva lot. Of course young bands are going to jump at every opportunity to play no matter what the compensation because a) they usually don't think they're worth anything and b) every opportunity to play is major at that stage.

...just sayin'

and also, congrats gents, that's fuckin' great!

clinton wrote:Of course young bands are going to jump at every opportunity to play no matter what the compensation because a) they usually don't think they're worth anything and b) every opportunity to play is major at that stage.

Exactly what I'm saying.

Being young and naive has it's advantages. I wish I could go back to that age where every gig was a new and exciting experience, untainted by the frustration of playing professionally for the past 14 years.

The first time I had that feeling in a long time was playing with you actually at the Blue Olive justa few weeks ago. Sometimes it's fun to just play music for the love of doing it. That's why I'm always so eager to play with you. That's also why these kids were so eager to get passports to play a free gig.

I'm in no way commenting on you and Roach here, you guys have your reasons I'm sure. I'm simply commenting on the fact that when you are young and amibitious (and perhaps a bit naive) you tend to overlook absolutely nothing and in this case in worked in their favor.

geesh Matt, did you lose your enthisiasm or just want to stop being taken advantage of? I am still as excited as my first show every single time I play, but I've learned that what I do is worth something. Charity events are of course a different beast.

clinton wrote:geesh Matt, did you lose your enthisiasm or just want to stop being taken advantage of?

A bit of both actually. It came from taking the gigs that I didn't want to do and trying to pretend to myself that I was happy playing in bands that I was miserable in. Then there's the business side of things, where things get all sideways.

Actually lately I've been getting my enthusiam back through these young kids coming into the scene with fresh new ambitions and ideas. The other thing is that now I only take gigs that really mean something to me. It helps because it gets me back to the reason I like music at all, it's because of the feeling i get from it. It's not for money, or to please other people or to be "cool" or somehow important, it's because I love music on a deeply personal and almost selfish level.

I'm back to that place I was at when I was 13 years old and music was just something to enjoy.

That's great, and admirable.

clinton wrote: I am still as excited as my first show every single time I play, but I've learned that what I do is worth something.

What I do is worth something too. I'm good at what I do, but I'd rather play with you for nothing than play with "Coverband X" for $200 a night. The opposite view was likely what jaded me. When I decided that the money was worth more than the art.

Jon Goud and I were discussing this exact thing one night. He concluded that it was a 3 prong test that needed to satisfy at least 2 of the 3 points.

1)Is this financially rewarding?

2)Is this a good opportunity for exposure?

3)Is this going to be a fun gig?

In order for a gig to be worth it he concluded, you need to answer yes to at least 2 of those points. I've been using this system as my guide ever since.

It also explains why young bands play almost every show they can. They are always having fun, and when you're young and just starting, everything is about exposure. So the money never really matters as much to them. Until either it stops being fun or they no longer feel they need the exposure.

on the other side of the coin, one eventually comes to realize that, if they let themselves, it's very easy to be taken advantage of. A LOT of show organizers take the entertainment for granted and use them to make their money without any real regard for what the artist is doing. Bar owners especially will take the lowest bidder every time without any concern for what is quality. You see it every weekend and if more and more bands and artists were to just jump at the chance to oplay without any regard for what they're offering is worth, then we'd all be shit out of luck wouldn't we.

Music is important and live performance is something that needs to compensated if it's being exploited.

These are my thoughts anyway.

You're 137% right.

I still think the system works in that regard as well. It's up to every individual artist to know the difference when they're being taken advantage of. But that's a discretionary call.

For example: Do you think for a second that you are taking advantage of me? Of course not, I know better. If I thought you were though you could totally go fluff yourself. I usually gauge it case-by-case though, and I think anyone should.

I didn't get the impression in this case for example that these kids were being taken advantage of. Had I been approached though, maybe I'd see it differently but I can't say for sure.

It's a judgement call either way, and many factors can play in.

actually big guy, I told you in Riverview that I have your cut of the Olive show. Geesh, no-one expects you to play for nothing....

clinton wrote:actually big guy, I told you in Riverview that I have your cut of the Olive show. Geesh, no-one expects you to play for nothing....

So you're saying I can finally retire? Great, I'm buying a walk-in humidor.

My point is that I appreciate the music, and if I get some money out of it or not, it doesn't really affect me that much. But I appreciate your integrity in giving us what you can, it means a lot more to me than getting more money from someone who doesn't give a shit.

Greg H. wrote:

Crimson Chameleon wrote:What happened in the States? Where did you play? Who did you impress? et cetera . . .

Well I actually didn't do any playing, because I got landed in the hospital haha. But my bandmates played an acoustic set that was broadcast live on one of Calais's radio stations and they liked us so much that they put our single RSVP into circulation. You can check out the set and the single on our facebook page if you want:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Feedback/ ... 044?ref=ts

BTW you guys should totally get rid of the original version of that. Just keep the radio edit I made. You don't want that kind of stuff flying around the interwebbernet. Especially since the second mix is better and the arrangement is more polished. Why keep the old one up everywhere?

clinton wrote:

Jef wrote:

Greg H. wrote:...my bandmates played an acoustic set that was broadcast live on one of Calais's radio stations and they liked us so much that they put our single RSVP into circulation.

You never know where that 'break' is going to come from. Clinton and Roachie were both invited to perform in that show as well... but declined. Original music can sometimes be a hard sell and opportunities to perform live in situations where media reps are present shouldn't be shrugged off as 'just another non-paying gig'.
This may not be the case for Sean and Clinton... there might have been legitimate reasons for not doing the show... just sayin'.

Geesh Jef, I've been working hard for fifteen years playing in every dive and shithole this city and, many like it, have to offer. I didn't realize that my declining the show was me snubbing my nose at a non-paying gig. I could probably find enough change in the chocolate bar rack at the West side Esso to surpass what I've made from music.

Sean Roach plays music almost every single night and works harder than most people I know. I certainly don't think he was snubbing a free gig either.

I think the fact of the matter is that expecting someone to drive to Calais to play for nothing is asking a helluva lot. Of course young bands are going to jump at every opportunity to play no matter what the compensation because a) they usually don't think they're worth anything and b) every opportunity to play is major at that stage.

...just sayin'

Sorry Clinton, I was merely pointing out how sometimes we can miss out on opportunities and I used you and Sean as an example. And as I also alluded to the point that your declination was most likely quite justified.
Basically, I'm giving you guys a heads up about keeping an eye out for gigs that can help your career. Radio is still a strong medium.

Drumwaiter wrote:

Jon Goud wrote:it is a 3 prong test that needed to satisfy at least 2 of the 3 points.

1)Is this financially rewarding?

2)Is this a good opportunity for exposure?

3)Is this going to be a fun gig?

That show was a fundraiser for Haiti disaster victims so #1 was out... nobody involved got any pay.
WQDY radio has quite a vast listening area and it would definitely meet the criteria for #2.
As far as fun? yup I think everyone enjoyed it.

Jef wrote:

Drumwaiter wrote:

Jon Goud wrote:it is a 3 prong test that needed to satisfy at least 2 of the 3 points.

1)Is this financially rewarding?

2)Is this a good opportunity for exposure?

3)Is this going to be a fun gig?

That show was a fundraiser for Haiti disaster victims so #1 was out... nobody involved got any pay.
WQDY radio has quite a vast listening area and it would definitely meet the criteria for #2.
As far as fun? yup I think everyone enjoyed it.

Sold!