collide wrote:macrae11 wrote:With the acoustic guitar the first thing I heard was the tuning. Tuning is a very personal thing, and one which I'm quite sensitive too, especially when doubling parts. A single acoustic has a bit of leeway, but the more guitars you layer the more critical tuning is. I get the feeling that if there was only one guitar it wouldn't bother me so much, but it's getting a little chorus-y with the double.
collide wrote:I'm a big fan of the doubling, from stuff I listen to, and stuff I'm recording. I don't always prefer it, but I favor it more than not. Is your thought on this that it
seems too much for the whole song, or is it that there is no chorus in the song, making the whole song sound chorusy?
Ok a little confusion here. I wasn't referring to chorus-y in terms of song arrangement, ie verse, chorus, bridge. I was referring it as in slight timing and pitch differences that create a chorus effect, like with a chorus pedal.
collide wrote:macrae11 wrote:One of the things that I find helps doubles sit better, and also helps with the tuning issues and also fills out the musical spectrum, is capoing to different positions in the same key.
collide wrote:I like this one. I am anxious to try it out!
There's all kinds of fun you can have there. Get creative.
collide wrote:macrae11 wrote:having two doubles panned wide that do a very simplified pattern that can easily be copied perfectly. These form the bed, and then another "lead" acoustic can be panned in the middle which can be a little more complex and form your polyrhythms.
collide wrote:I Think I know what you mean by this one. Hadn't even crossed my mind. I have been writing all these songs with one guitar, and not even thinking of
adding other parts until recently when I finally had decent gear to work with. Now I need to play with many stuffs (<--technical term)
Try starting simple with this technique. Take the part you created when you wrote the song and pan it up the middle. Then create really simple doubled parts for L and R. Start with just whole notes on chord changes, then try half notes, or quarter notes, then eighths or slightly off beat rhythms, but make sure it's still not more complex than the main part.
collide wrote:macrae11 wrote:... overcompressing, or the wrong compression can destroy a good acoustic sound. I think that you are compression wrong, or with a very poor quality compressor... (more specific stuff said here, but i'm trying not to repost every single thing you said, cuz it's above)
collide wrote:This one confuses and intrigues me the most, because Until recently, I have not used compression ever. I don't fully understand how it works, so I have been
reading and talking to people and trying some things, as well as playing with presets. In this one, I found the presets sounded better than what I did adjusting
manually, but again, I don't know compression. How can one tell if you are overdoing it? should you compress one thing at a time? combine first, then compress?
compress only one thing? several? Here is the one I've been wanting to ask about the most. When it comes to taste, I will go with what I like, but I really
don't know enough about this to tell. If there is a better way to go about it, I want to learn.
If you have several items in your tune, which should have compression? or should they be combined and add compression to the tune as a whole?
I don't have much for gear. My compression is digital with Reaper, the program I record and mix with most. I am also not experienced with effects, reverb, etc.
Alright this is some heavy duty stuff that takes many many hours and days, maybe even weeks and years to get a handle on, so I'll break it down a bit.
collide wrote:I don't fully understand how it works, so I have been
reading and talking to people and trying some things, as well as playing with presets. In this one, I found the presets sounded better than what I did adjusting
manually, but again, I don't know compression.
Ok first off. Compression is probably the most difficult effect to actually hear. Most beginners don't even recognize compression for the first couple of years of music making, without some direct instruction and ear training. Basically a compressor is just a device which controls the dynamic range of your audio signal. Once your signal gets above a certain threshold, the compressor will turn the volume down a certain amount(ratio) to compensate. Here's a place to start with a little more technical detail.
http://www.rane.com/par-c.html Learning to hear compression takes quite some time. A good exercise is just to play around with different compressors. For example, start with any source. 1.Put compressor on source. 2.Set threshold to below the average signal level. 3.Set medium ratio, ie 4:1. Attack and release set all the way slow. 4.Slowly turn the attack faster and hear how the sound changes. 5.Repeat with release. 6.Repeat with attack, but start with release all the way fast. 7.Repeat with release, but start with attack all the way fast. Then go back to step 3 and set a high ratio, say 10:1 and go through steps 4-7. Then set a low ratio around 2:1 and repeat. Then go back to step two and set the threshold just at the top edge of the signal level. Then go back to step two and set it well below the average signal level. Then go back to step 1 and try a different style of compressor. It doesn't make as much difference in the box, but there are a multitude of different styles of compressors that all react differently. Once you've done all that, you should have a good idea of the range of capabilities for compression on that source. Then you have to repeat that with every different source you can think of, and all the different combinations of sources, ie full mix, drum group, guitar group, kick and bass etc etc. Once you have all that down, you need to try all this in the context of a mix, where the rubber actually meets the road. So now that you are aware of the capabilities, you have to make the aesthetic decision about not only whether it sounds better, but if it's appropriate for the song/arrangement/part etc. keeping in mind that this processing will affect all other processing in your mix.
So you can see why it might take a while. That being said, feel free to jump right in and start experimenting, because otherwise you'll be months playing with compressors instead of making music, which I assume is your main goal.
collide wrote:How can one tell if you are overdoing it?
Experience.
collide wrote:should you compress one thing at a time? combine first, then compress?
compress only one thing? several?
There's no one answer here, and again it comes down to experience. As many different mixers as there are, I imagine there are at least that many different approaches. I fall into the "all of the above" category.
collide wrote:Here is the one I've been wanting to ask about the most. When it comes to taste, I will go with what I like, but I really
don't know enough about this to tell. If there is a better way to go about it, I want to learn.
Again experience, but if you're not sure, play things on the safe side. One big thing that a lot of beginners don't realize the power of is the attack and release. Some compressors don't have these settings, but most will at least have a version of them. If I'm dealing with a new source that I'm not sure the best way to approach compression wise(but I've determined that it does require compression) I'll start by setting the release to the tempo of the song. Sometimes that's whole notes, sometimes half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth, dotted 32nd etc, but something that fits the groove of the song. A way to figure this out is if you have a part that's playing a very steady rhythm, ie a 4 on the floor kick drum, solo it and set the release so that the compressor pulls the signal down, but then fully, or almost fully releases in time for the next beat. This will vary depending on your other settings, but try to get it so that it "pumps" a bit, ie make the compressor move with the song.
Once you have your release set up, set your attack until it has the amount of grab you want. Listen carefully to how it affects the beginnings of notes as you speed it up. Then set the threshold and ratio to taste to pull the amount you're looking for. This is not even getting into sidechaining, parallel compression, triggering, ordering of effects................
collide wrote:If you have several items in your tune, which should have compression? or should they be combined and add compression to the tune as a whole?
There is no answer, except for the one that works best in that particular instant, in that particular part, in that particular song.
collide wrote:I don't have much for gear. My compression is digital with Reaper, the program I record and mix with most.
It's not really so much about the gear, especially for a beginner. Although there are lots of free plugs out there you can play with, I would work with your stock compressor for a bit until you really get the hang of things, and then start experimenting with other manufacturers once you know what to look for.
collide wrote:I am also not experienced with effects, reverb, etc.
This again, is a whole nother ball of wax. I literally spend weeks on this stuff with my students, and often it still doesn't sink in. It's one of those things you almost have to be together to teach too, because it can be very difficult to get musical points across the internet. One thing I would say to try, is find other peoples songs which you like the treatment of, and try to copy it.
collide wrote:macrae11 wrote:
Baffles and gobos can sometimes help kill a bad room too, but they can introduce their own issues by killing some frequencies but letting others slip through. Experimentation is the key.
collide wrote:these words are new to me. : P
I will look them up.
They're basically just sound blockers to reduce or eliminate either the sound of a room, or another sound source in the room.