The Modern Music Industry

Musical artists and their stuff...
---Hosted by Scott DeVarenne & Matt Benoit

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby macrae11 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:27 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
macrae11 wrote:This guy is so spot on that I might have to make him my home page.
http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/201 ... onsidered/
Now this annoying reply:

http://www.wesleyverhoeve.com/quixotism/

See I don't mind that as much. I think he misunderstands and misrepresents lowery but he has a point. I welcome a new model that incorporates streaming and offline storage. It's coming soon anyways so might as well embrace it. Spotify is not it. But a similar service that is actually setup properly could save the music industry.

I would see it as a free service that you could stream lores music and videos ala YouTube on a voluntary basis by the artist. A place for them to release singles, promos, videos, vlogs etc, but preferably not there whole catalog. Then a paid premium service, maybe with tiers for $20-$30/month with premium content, offline storage, playlists etc. I don't think the average music listener ever spent on average that much per month, and the real fans will still buy hard copies special editions etc. there will always be people who steal. Just like with cable and illegal boxes. We just have to get enough people on this new model to make it feasible like cable. If apple came out and did this right with a model that could benefit artists it could work. The royalties could easily be tracked and managed and artists would directly get played based on popularity. Then the freehadists argument about creating good content would actually be valid. Apple I think is the only company right now that could pull this off, but I don't know if they're the right company for it.
User avatar
macrae11
Andrew MacRae
 
Posts: 2128
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:12 pm
Location: Oromocto

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:31 am

Bill Mueller on another network:

http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/ ... ott-npr/9/

I think he speaks what a lot of us think as well.

One important part:
Bill Mueller wrote:This IS a war. But it is not a war by artists on their fans. It is a war by big business on the creative class, using ignorant fans, brainwashed by years of propaganda, to crush intellectual property rights and create cheap content with which to sell hardware and services. Anyone who does not understand this fundamental fact by now, has already drank the cool aid.
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:46 am

See the problem isn't just with private consumers of music anymore either. Many small-time commercial consumers don't value music either, and many of them have the mentality that it should be free for them to use your music in their production.

This is a bit of a cross-over from Malcolm's technical contribution thread but I think both problems stem from the same mentality.

I caught a local production company flat out stealing my music for use in their productions on several occasions a few years back. The unfortunate thing with that is that it forced me to confront them about it and made our business relationship awkward. They claim it was accidental, but my point was that either way it showed a total lack of respect. Fact of the matter is if I didn't catch them, they'd still be doing it and when I did catch them it's not like they offered to pay me for it, they just apologized and hoped I'd leave it there.

This morning I get a reply back from a client that was looking for music for their new brand marketing campaign. I won't get into what the organization does because the irony would give them away... But I gave them a really low-ball quote considering many factors very carefully that even included publishing rights (which they specifically requested.) This was a project I wanted Nick to cut his teeth on, since I would have charged them easily 4-5 times as much, but they decided that the quoted price was too high and started shopping around. They managed to find many companies apparently that bested the low-ball quote.

I wasn't going to bargain with them, I just said "thanks for the consideration" and left it at that. The problem is two fold though... They thought my really low quote was still too much, and they found other people that jumped at the chance to devalue the whole process even more.

It only really happens with small organizations and businesses though. The type that are run by people who haven't had to pay for music in their personal lives and they transfer that mentality to how they do business. When I deal with large corporations, they expect that custom music for their ad campaign will cost real money and they don't mind opening their pocket books for it because they've already budgeted with that in mind.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

Mathieu Benoit - Fluid Productions
www.fluidaudiogroup.com
www.facebook.com/FluidAudioGroup
User avatar
Mathieu Benoit
Drumwaiter
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:55 pm
Location: Saint John, New Brunswick

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:43 am

Matt is touching on something related to something else I have run into. People doing commercial recording work using illegal copies of not only production elements and music, but also sound effects. I have spent good money to get set up with a decent licensed library, and I've run into people getting their designs done by "studios" with the same stuff by way of unlicensed copies.

Seen this yet? http://www.helpstoppiracy.com/
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:56 am

Malcolm Boyce wrote:Matt is touching on something related to something else I have run into. People doing commercial recording work using illegal copies of not only production elements and music, but also sound effects. I have spent good money to get set up with a decent licensed library, and I've run into people getting their designs done by "studios" with the same stuff by way of unlicensed copies.

Seen this yet? http://www.helpstoppiracy.com/


Different tangent to the same problem is software piracy. It's hard to compete with these types of "studios" because if they have no problem stealing sound FX and music they have zero problems stealing software. It's hard to compete with that... Since that reduces their overhead significatly.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

Mathieu Benoit - Fluid Productions
www.fluidaudiogroup.com
www.facebook.com/FluidAudioGroup
User avatar
Mathieu Benoit
Drumwaiter
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:55 pm
Location: Saint John, New Brunswick

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:20 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:I caught a local production company flat out stealing my music for use in their productions on several occasions a few years back. The unfortunate thing with that is that it forced me to confront them about it and made our business relationship awkward. They claim it was accidental, but my point was that either way it showed a total lack of respect. Fact of the matter is if I didn't catch them, they'd still be doing it and when I did catch them it's not like they offered to pay me for it, they just apologized and hoped I'd leave it there.
How would this production company feel if they found me using part of one of their videos for promotional use without their consent?

I find it funny how sometimes those who will protect their interests, don't even think about what they are doing on the other end. Back to my comment about the dance groups. The competition level groups are super serious about protecting their "property" in that they restrict video recording of their pieces, but don't consider using proper, purchased copies of music for their productions.
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Jef » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:26 pm

On the topic of sound effects, how does the copyright work? For example, I used the sound of a Harley Davidson motorcycle on a recording one time. I took a mic outside and recorded the engine sound. Now, do I own that sound byte or does Harley Davidson? I also recorded a car horn, the sound of chains dropping on a hardwood floor, the sound of a door slamming, lots of things. I've created some sound effects using synthesizers and other studio tools.

How (and why) would anyone copyright these sort of things? The sounds are really easy to reproduce and claiming ownership on any of them would be a difficult thing to prove, wouldn't it?
"I did what any good producer would do. I rolled a fatty." - Mixerman -
User avatar
Jef
Gold Member
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:00 am

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:37 pm

Jef wrote:On the topic of sound effects, how does the copyright work? For example, I used the sound of a Harley Davidson motorcycle on a recording one time. I took a mic outside and recorded the engine sound. Now, do I own that sound byte or does Harley Davidson? I also recorded a car horn, the sound of chains dropping on a hardwood floor, the sound of a door slamming, lots of things. I've created some sound effects using synthesizers and other studio tools.

How (and why) would anyone copyright these sort of things? The sounds are really easy to reproduce and claiming ownership on any of them would be a difficult thing to prove, wouldn't it?
I'm not talking about you recording "things", and no it's not easy for most people to be recording things on their own to use.

Companies such as Sound Ideas spend a lot of money producing high quality recordings, and selling them to end users. I paid a decent amount of money for the rights to use those recordings in my work. Having less honest types using downloads of the same recordings, and selling sound design work to clients who I have also done work for is an issue I have.

Trust me. It's not hard at all to tell they are the same recordings.
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:51 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:
Jef wrote:On the topic of sound effects, how does the copyright work? For example, I used the sound of a Harley Davidson motorcycle on a recording one time. I took a mic outside and recorded the engine sound. Now, do I own that sound byte or does Harley Davidson? I also recorded a car horn, the sound of chains dropping on a hardwood floor, the sound of a door slamming, lots of things. I've created some sound effects using synthesizers and other studio tools.

How (and why) would anyone copyright these sort of things? The sounds are really easy to reproduce and claiming ownership on any of them would be a difficult thing to prove, wouldn't it?
I'm not talking about you recording "things", and no it's not easy for most people to be recording things on their own to use.

Companies such as Sound Ideas spend a lot of money producing high quality recordings, and selling them to end users. I paid a decent amount of money for the rights to use those recordings in my work. Having less honest types using downloads of the same recordings, and selling sound design work to clients who I have also done work for is an issue I have.

Trust me. It's not hard at all to tell they are the same recordings.
And actually, as an extension Jef, you own the copyright for any recordings you make of those sound effects. They are for you to do with as you see fit. If you want to keep them, sell them, give them away, it's all good, but it's your decision and not someone else's to take from you. It is essentially the same as music recordings.
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Jef » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:00 pm

I guess it's that I don't put much value on the sound bites that I create. Most of them are for a one-time only use and I don't keep a library of them. If I need to use a similar sound effect at a later time, I just create a new one from scratch.
"I did what any good producer would do. I rolled a fatty." - Mixerman -
User avatar
Jef
Gold Member
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:00 am

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:03 pm

Jef wrote:I guess it's that I don't put much value on the sound bites that I create. Most of them are for a one-time only use and I don't keep a library of them. If I need to use a similar sound effect at a later time, I just create a new one from scratch.
I keep everything I build, either recorded myself, or elements combined to create something else. Saves time in the long run. :-)
"Once again, it is NEVER the gear that makes a good record.
It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

middleaudio.com
User avatar
Malcolm Boyce
Your Humble Host
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:07 am
Location: Saint John, NB

Re: The Modern Music Industry

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:11 pm

Jef wrote:I guess it's that I don't put much value on the sound bites that I create. Most of them are for a one-time only use and I don't keep a library of them. If I need to use a similar sound effect at a later time, I just create a new one from scratch.


I'm the same way with snare drum sample enhancements. Except I do keep a library of them, but I usually never re-use them.
"Volume automation takes time. You don't got that kinda time. You could be getting naked with somebody somewhere." -Slipperman

Mathieu Benoit - Fluid Productions
www.fluidaudiogroup.com
www.facebook.com/FluidAudioGroup
User avatar
Mathieu Benoit
Drumwaiter
 
Posts: 4707
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:55 pm
Location: Saint John, New Brunswick

Previous

Return to Music and Musicians

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests

cron