70's prices?

[roachie]

I hate to ask, and I do it for free most of the time, but what should be the going rate $'wise for musicians? ... be it house parties - corporate gigs - bar gigs - weddings... what is the breakdown?

I talked to a fella who told me that he got the same dollar sum in the 70's that they're offering now... I was also told a much longer story about bands taking less because the other bar paid even more less, and that was a competition...

SJ can use a comradery. We should hold meetings.

[Jef]

This is a trend that has been happening for a long time now.
I know when I was playing bars back in the early 80's, 8-12 hundred dollars
a night was about the going rate for a half decent cover-band.
Nowadays you can do well to get 400 a night gig.
Here is a breakdown of what pro musicians may expect to get for
various types of performances.

* http://www.afm.org/uploads/image/MP_chart_no_bar(4).pdf


*...sorry, invalid characters in url '()' copy & paste the http:... without the [url] tags.

[Mathieu Benoit]

Personally, I really dislike the idea of leaving the house for less than $100. There are the rare occasions that I go below... (Roachie, you know the gigs I mean) But typically, that's my hard deck. I don't think it's that much to ask.

Typical SJ gig's worth of work for me:

7:30pm: Pick up a drum kit at the studio (thankfully now I have a dedicated gig kit that always stay in cases by the door, for quick pick up of drums.)

8:00pm: Arrive at venue and setup drums. I typically like to arrive early enough to be comfortable, yet not so early that I'm left 'hanging around' the bar with nothing to do.

8:30pm: Assist the other musicians with the set up of P.A. and anything else that needs to be done.

9:00pm: Soundcheck. Doesn't usually take long, in this town, the average bar band does half a song and leaves it at that.

10:00pm: Start show, and play a 60 minute set.

11:15pm: Start second set after 15 minute break.

12:15am: Start third set after 15 minute break.

1:15am: Start fourth and final set.

2:05am: Dodge the drunk that won't stop talking to me and try to tear down my kit as quickly as possible without tirpping over more drunks thus startign up even more useless conversations.

2:20am: Pack the drums back in the car.

2:30am: Wait for someone to pay me.

2:40am: Ask around to see if anyone has seen the person that's supposed to pay me.

2:50am: Finally get paid.

3:00: Arrive at the studio, and drop off drums.


TOTAL TIME CONSUMED: 7 hours 35 minutes (approx.)

Is that not worth $100? Considering the considerable time that we all put into our specialized skills... I don't think it's unreasonable to not really want to leave the house for any less.

If a drumkit's provided by the venue, I might be pursuaded to go below that, or maybe some other special circumstances...

Those are my thoughts on it. As an individual of course, as I don't belong to any band.

[Mathieu Benoit]

* http://www.afm.org/uploads/image/MP_chart_no_bar(4).pdf


*...sorry, invalid characters in url '()' copy & paste the http:... without the [url] tags.

That's all fine and well for orchestrators and copyists... But what am I supposed to get?

[macrae11]

Well the average rate for sound techs in this area generally runs from $15-$35/hr depending on experience. I think this seems to be a fair setup for musicians as well. At $100/night, you're falling into the very bottom of that bracket, which I don't think is appropriate, considering your experience and caliber.(I'm considering your schedule a 6 hr call, as normally you wouldn't be paid for your prep time or travel time to and from the venue.

I would think you should be requesting $150/night with a schedule like that. So 4 guys in a good caliber band should be making minimum $600/night. I don't know how reasonable that is seeing as I do very little playing of gigs like this, but I don't think it should be out of the ordinary. Just for comparison, for the ECMA stage that I was running, we we're trying to pay the bands almost that much for a 1/2 hr set. Now granted it was a very large venue, and it's the ECMA's but still. Also our studio musicians get significantly more than the highest rate I've suggested for studio work.

[Mathieu Benoit]

I would think you should be requesting $150/night with a schedule like that. So 4 guys in a good caliber band should be making minimum $600/night.

$100 is my minimum. $150 would be my target asking price, were it up to me. I totally agree with you. But unfortunately around here, it's not so much what I feel I'm worth, it's what the market feels we are worth as a collective... If a 4 piece band is getting $400 a night I can't ask for $150, ya know... It's unfortunate.

We need to form a real union...

Musicians just need to all agree that they are worth more, than what the bars are currently willing to pay. However, if even one band caves in; we are back to square one. I'm open to suggestions...

[Jef]

We need to form a real union...

...here here!!

[LarryS]

I managed a nightclub in Calais about five or six years ago now. One of the largest barriers we faced as a business were the "trends" of the local clubbers.

Both the owner and myself loved lived music and we tried to provide that service every weekend.

The problem begins when the majority of your clientel show up one hour before closing time and then the majority of those that do show up order one water to get though their "big night out". They were already loaded from their pre-party at home.

We would be lucky to take $1000-$1200 across the bar on a Friday or Saturday night. By the time staff was paid, supplies were bought and the utilities were paid..... Well I don't manage a bar anymore.

We tried to consistently pay the bands $100.00 per band member. (My own band included) There was one local band that we paid more. They had a great following but we would still loose $$ the weekends that they played.

Now a large part of the problem in our area is lack of population. But if people could have supported the scene just a little bit we may have had a chance.

I believe you guys are on the right track with this forum. The biggest part of creating "a scene" is having the fan base support. Somehow musicians, club owners, promoters and the like need to work as one to educate and motive the average club goer to spend some hard earned $$. I would like to think that "if the music is killer than people will spend the cash." but I do not believe that is always the case.

I believe that another problem is D.J.'s. Now I lived in Southern California for 15 years and I got to hear some great DJ's with awesome mixes and great talent. But here in Eastern Maine all you've got is some smuck spinning disks with a rack of lights.
*do.. not.. rant..*
And johnny public seems to think nothing of laying down $350-$500 for these....people. So much for weddings and some gigs that historically payed half decent.

It is a hard nut to crack no matter how you look at it. I know I don't want to leave the house for under $100 for the night. But I know I often do and will probably continue to do so 'cause I'm a musician and that's what we do.

[Mathieu Benoit]

I agree wholeheartedly with your entire statement. I'm not necessarily blaming club owners either. But fact is that there is a problem, and it would be nice to come to a solution.

[Mathieu Benoit]

I dug up this old thread while reading back through the archives today.

Roachie and I have held down a steady house gig for a few years now. We do an weekly open mic. In this time I'd had the chance to really get to see the progression of the establishment over time.

What Larry describes is the problem. I'm good enough with numbers to know that to take care of your overhead and still make enough profit to put food on the table, a club owner has to be making a LOT of sales. It's not enough that people are coming in the bar, they have to be drinking. They have to show up early and get poured into a cab at the end of it. A major trend that people see around these parts is kids going out after getting drunk at their pre-party, and maybe getting one drink when they're out, they're showing up between 12 and 1 and the bar barely sees 10 bucks out of their pocket including cover charge.

On Sunday nights at our open mic, there is no cover. So unless people are coming in AND drinking, we really don't have a job, and it's not because we don't have a great rapport with the club owner, because we do. It's because if he can't make ends meet because we're nto drawing in enough revenue then, it's just business.

Fortunately, we attract drinkers. At first there was a handful of people there every week, but the band was getting paid peanuts too. Then I joined and by that time time the client base was reasonable, so we asked for a raise to compensate, and the owner complied happily. Then a lto of time went by, and we were able to see a consistent rise in patrons, and we knew the bar was now having one of their best nights on average. So we asked for another raise, the club owner took some time to run the numbers and make sure that the new numbers supported the request comfortably. When he realized it did, again he was glad to agree to our request.

My point in this is that we've cultivated a crowd, one that spends money on booze, and we keep them coming back every week, and there are new regulars coming in all the time. but we do our best to cultivate and nurture this crowd. We demonstrate to them that we have value.

That's it... bands around here that get paid well have demonstrated consistent value. I truly believe that on average if people always felt that you'd give them value in your performance, they'll keep coming back.

Now there are many other things that we could do to improve in this department, like changing up our set lists and such, but so far we are doign well, mostly because when we are on that stage, we mean it. We could also try to intice people to come out a bit earlier. We may not be the best players around, but we'll give you everything we got.

It seems to be working. but we are very mindful of the bar's situation, we always want to make profits for the bar. That's the only way we're ever going to make the money we want to make around here.

[LarryS]

I think that this is a perfect story of give and take. You and the barkeep worked together to build a good night of entertainment and maybe even a little profit. I agree with you if it is good people will listen. I hope to make it up some Sunday night soon. It sounds like big fun!!

[Mathieu Benoit]

You understood my point perfectly, we all need to work together and look out for each others interests. If our primary concern is to make the bar as much money as possible, then the bar will reciprocate the favor when we deliver.

Think of it like good sex... Y'know, the kind that's good for her too.

[LarryS]

I've never thought like that before.... do I have to start now?????

[Mathieu Benoit]

My analogies aren't for everyone....