My Rant --- "Headliner Syndrome"

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My Rant --- "Headliner Syndrome"

Postby Jef » Sun May 31, 2009 1:01 am

OK, I just got back from seeing a local show. First time in a while that I had an evening off on a weekend. Three opening acts and a headliner.
Now, is there an unwritten rule somewhere that says the sound has to suck for the opening acts? I could understand that maybe not as loud as the headliner, but deliberately making the sound bad?
One band in particular, 'Fireball' from saint John... really good stuff and a singer that can really wail. But the mix was terrible!
I get so discouraged when I know that if the sound guy would 'wake up' and listen to what's going on, it could be easily fixed.
This was a reputable sound company with a full compliment of equipment but it looked deliberate. He paid absolutely no attention to the show whatsoever during the first three acts.
When the headlining act came on, he immediately sprung into action and was all over the consol paying attention to every detail.
In my opinion...this is BULLSHIT!!!
I would never do this. If I was getting paid to mix 4 acts, I would mix ALL 4 acts.


**Post title edited to reflect the content** MB
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Sun May 31, 2009 4:13 am

Geez that's not right... Obvious question though: Who was the sound company?
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Postby Jef » Sun May 31, 2009 9:15 am

Drumwaiter wrote:Geez that's not right... Obvious question though: Who was the sound company?


...I'd rather not mention names, but they were from Moncton.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Sun May 31, 2009 12:04 pm

...and it was them mixing? Strange, I've always had good professional results whenever I've hired them.
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Postby macrae11 » Sun May 31, 2009 4:05 pm

There's two companies from Moncton, and one of them has a much better reputation than the other one. That being said, it's often not the company but the individual, so writing off an entire company because of the poor performance of one individual would be a bit harsh. I've seen it a number of times as well. Usually it's laziness. No excuse at all. I've seen incompetence be an issue from time to time, when it's different mixers for different acts. Different scenario though.

Who was the headliner Jef? And did they sound great, or just comparatively better?
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Postby Jef » Sun May 31, 2009 4:30 pm

macrae11 wrote:... it's often not the company but the individual, so writing off an entire company because of the poor performance of one individual would be a bit harsh.

That's why I don't want to name names.

...I've seen it a number of times as well. Usually it's laziness. No excuse at all.

Most likely the case here.

... I've seen incompetence be an issue from time to time, when it's different mixers for different acts.

Not an issue, same mixer and same sound guy all 4 acts.

Who was the headliner Jef? And did they sound great, or just comparatively better?

It was 'Hells Bells' (an AC*DC clone band). There was no comparison... day and night.
And like I mentioned before, it's like he just sprang to life and started doing his job only when the headlining act went on. He actually looked like he was sleeping a couple times during the other shows.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:13 pm

I have experienced many examples of "Headliner Syndrome" over the years. This can be due to many factors and sometimes is not as black and white as you may like to think.

There unfortunately are techs that think that the "opening" acts don't deserve their full attention. Sometimes they think it is the "rule" of the biz, but as you mentioned, sometimes they are just being lazy, or classless.

Sometimes a rig is sound checked heavily for a headliner, and the other acts must play through "as is" with little preparation, which can be less than desirable sonically. If the headliner in this case sounded fantastic from note one of their first set, this may have been the deal here. If the headliner just got tweaked into place during their first song instead of being ignored like the first three bands... well... you know.

I have mixed opening sets through rigs that have been tampered with to disable them to give advantage to the "headliners". I have been told by system techs or FOH for the "stars" that certain FX, EQ and such were off limits to me as the lowly opening act's FOH.

When I mix multi band shows, which is often, every band gets my full attention, to the best of my ability, given the situation. I have never consciously limited quality, level or processing to give a "headliner" advantage, and I have never been told to in situations where I am the only FOH tech, or the systems tech with touring "headliner" FOH.

That all said, I have been asked on occasion if I were with such and such band because of them sounding so much better... Of if I were playing the "headliner" game.... The honest response is, some acts just don't sound like a "headliner". To quote Andy Robicheau after an ECMA showcase: "Not every performer on stage this evening, was a professional musician."

The case is made once again to travel with your own techs, even if you're only a lowly support act, and sound and tech is being supplied. Too many bands trying to save a buck cripple their first impression with an audience. It is not unheard of for opening bands to have their own FOH and monitor techs. It is most common for a band tech to be there to supervise the stage setup, and get monitors situated if necessary, and then move on to FOH.

Being an "opening act", in some situations.... too many factors are against you.
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Postby Jef » Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:51 pm

I could understand giving the headliner a bigger sound than the opening acts, but in this situation, the opening acts didn't even get mixed.
For instance, the third group to go on had 3 vocalists. All three are decent singers and they all shared doing lead vocals and harmonies. When the bass player sang a lead vocal...all you could hear were the harmony lines coming from the other two. It was nuts, only hearing a vocal during the chorus...and then just the harmony lines. The sound tech just sat there with his arms folded...occasionally looking down at his wristwatch.
I really felt bad for them because I've heard them before (with a decent mix) and they're quite good as a cover band.
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Re: My Rant --- "Headliner Syndrome"

Postby Jef » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:18 pm

**Post title edited to reflect the content** MB

...thank you.
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Re: My Rant --- "Headliner Syndrome"

Postby Scott DeVarenne » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:31 pm

Jef wrote:...this is BULLSHIT!!!

Certainly sounds like it. Of course, we don't know the details of the event. There could be factors which could lead to such behavior
rating a little lower on the bullshit scale. For example, all three opening acts were responsible for their own FOH tech but
didn't want to/couldn't bring their own tech. Unlikely, but a possibility. So the FOH tech for the headliner is begrudgingly minding
the console when he expected to be taking a nap. Even in such a case, one would hope that a combination of compassion and
renegotiation of pay would lead to some effort being made to provide a decent mix for the band (and for the audience, most of whom
I would assume paid money to attend the event). Rock and Roll is a vicious game.
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Re: My Rant --- "Headliner Syndrome"

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:43 am

Scott DeVarenne wrote:...the FOH tech for the headliner is begrudgingly minding
the console when he expected to be taking a nap. Even in such a case, one would hope that a combination of compassion and
renegotiation of pay would lead to some effort being made to provide a decent mix for the band (and for the audience, most of whom
I would assume paid money to attend the event). ...
Seen that happen too. Excellent point.
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Postby roachie » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:51 am

So what you're saying is the sound tech for "headliner" got stuck with the openers without his/her knowledge, and was probably pissed about it... I suppose I would be too... I'd still at least try to get a decent sound out of the bands out of compassion, and fill out an invoice... never been in such a situation, so who knows.
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Postby Jef » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:45 am

roachie wrote:So what you're saying is the sound tech for "headliner" got stuck with the openers without his/her knowledge, and was probably pissed about it... I suppose I would be too... I'd still at least try to get a decent sound out of the bands out of compassion, and fill out an invoice... never been in such a situation, so who knows.


Pissed about it or not, no excuse for incompetence.
If such were the case, dude is shooting himself in the foot career-wise.
I will remember this guy and I'm sure others will as well.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:25 pm

I was talking to someone Sunday night that said exactly what you said. He wasn't an audio professional or anything just a regular concert go-er but said that for the opening acts the sound was awful.

I can see mixing the opening bands and then turning the overall level down a bit, then ramping up the volume for the headliner. but what you discribe is not cool.

On another note. Malcolm mixed a tight ship Sunday. Everyone sounded the best they were gonna given the circumstances. Unfortunately this is more than I can say for other shows that I've attented in the past few weeks. I'm seeing a whole lot of this "I'm a sound dick" attitude lately, and I don't even mean Alain... Anyways, I digress. Who needs to hear vocals anyways?
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Postby RoadDog » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:30 pm

I don't get this... all scenarios aside, if I am at the desk, and in plain view of the audience, I have a reputation, such that it is, to uphold. I am the human interface for the sound system, what comes out of the PA is in no small part ME!... The music business is regrettably highly political at certain levels, ironically this is at the mid level of the industry, the top end seems to all get along famously, pun intended, at least that has been my personal experience.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:49 pm

As Keith said, you always have the chance to make a good impression when in these situations. One of these seemingly less important acts may be in the position to hire you someday.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:53 pm

Malcolm Boyce wrote:One of these seemingly less important acts may be in the position to hire you someday.


Who cares... What ever happened to just doing the job you were paid to do? Fuck... I mean, I give 110% at the shit that I don't even get paid to do. Because I want to do my best. That's for me, I don't really factor what others are thinking in that, it's just personal integrity. Why can't I hear the vocals? It's not that complicated.........

[sorry I'm having one of those days]
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:30 pm

Drumwaiter wrote:Who cares... What ever happened to just doing the job you were paid to do?
The point I think Scott was the seed of is, sometimes someone is stuck doing something they didn't commit themselves to and just don't care. Maybe they're not getting "paid" to do that job. If you aren't aware of what's transpired earlier in the day, it's impossible to be sure of what's going on.

In the case of the OP's example, was it the "headliner's" FOH guy, or just a local dude who's being a moron? Maybe the guy in question was stuck sitting behind the console waiting for "his" band to start.

Really though, in that situation, assuming nothing really nasty has happened, I would mix the show...
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Postby roachie » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:49 pm

all in all, it's your face behind the board... and if you're slackin' off, other audio guys will take notice and talk about it in some kind of message board.
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Postby RoadDog » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:00 pm

No they would not... really? Yeah, they would, and should... if for nothing else than for entertainment on a Wednesday afternoon.
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Postby Jef » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:57 pm

roachie wrote:all in all, it's your face behind the board... and if you're slackin' off, other audio guys will take notice and talk about it in some kind of message board.
...so beware! You never know who might be lurking among the crowd...cleverly disguised as an ordinary person. :shock:

RoadDog wrote:... if for nothing else than for entertainment on a Wednesday afternoon.
Glad I could help ;-)
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:02 am

Went to a show last night. The sound dude was awake for this one, which kinda makes it worse. I like the guy a lot so I won't name names, but holy jebus... The vocals go on top! I can't stress that enough folks. If I can't make out the words to songs that I already know the words to (while I'm standing next to FOH position), then you need to get out of the way and let someone else do the job that you are pretending to do. Also the reason that the singer is looking at you funny is because you missed 4 cues to turn the vocals up in his monitor while you were kibitzing with a crazy woman. One last piece of advise, all your faders do NOT have to be near the limit for things to sounds good, no wonder the vocals had no where to go. Next time I go to see a singer perform, I better be able to hear the fucking vocals or I'm gonna slap someone.

FAQ!!!!

***end rant***

deep breath and.... :-D
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Postby Scott DeVarenne » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:52 am

Drumwaiter wrote:so I won't name names (ahem... Scott DeVarenne)

In case anybody is wondering, it wasn't me.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:55 am

Hehehe...
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