Long and McQuade

Whatever doesn't fit anywhere else.

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:21 pm

I really like Bill. I know that some people have had some less than pleasant experiences with him but I've always liked him. I give him my money and he gives me his attention, it's a pretty mutually beneficial affair. Also I do believe that there is a good deal of mutual respect between him and I, and that's also very important to me. Bill would go out of his way for me and I'd do the same for him. I always went into L&M with a large tea for him. Why? Because he does things for me all the time. Setting up guitars, installing pickups, etc, and doesn't even ask for anything in return.

EDIT:
I've chosen to edit this part of the text as it was poor judgment on my part to name an employee specifically. I should have acted with more tact and I feel that in hindsight the person in question was unfairly victimized in my doing so. I wish at this time to apologize publicly to that employee. My comments served no positive purpose here.


It's about individual people. Bad treatment is far more annoying than all the orders that people have messed up on me over there. Now when someone there combines the art of treating someone poorly and messing up a transaction while doing it... Well after a couple of those, I guess that's when I stop going there. I just don't want to be bothered with it anymore. I don't NEED to shop there, I buy my consumables by the palette and I can order everything else I need from anywhere else. I can even go to Moncton L&M, so not shopping there doesn't adversely affect me in any way really. I used to only shop at Hugga because it was local. Then it was Musicstop, which was still kinda local, and I started really liking the staff there, from the old Hugga. But now, I mean, really... Why would I subject myself or anyone acting on my behalf to deal with the kinds of things that I've had to deal with? Simple. I wouldn't.

And here we are.
Last edited by Mathieu Benoit on Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby warrbeat » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:19 pm

Bing! Done pondering... LOL

Actually Matt, I was using Bill as an example of someone who has shown me that there are people in the biz that do care but with a small difference which I will add in a few lines... He really seems to care about the store's customers, whether it is a Long & McQuade or Marty's guitar mart... He seems to have kept a pretty close tabs on what each guitar player likes and dislikes that has purchased a guitar from him.
He has also discussed things at my level (rudimentary at best) regarding drums and cymbals which I typically enjoy.

I've had Bill come over to me in the store to tell me that there was a guitar that an old band mate of mine would really like....
He's handed me a $3000 guitar to take to a friend to try out... albeit, really good sales tactics but isn't that what makes a good sales man. On the other side, I know he has read this thread and is concerned and wants to figure out how to make this better for you personally Matt.

If nothing else Bill has changed but mostly in my mind. 10 years ago I couldn't imagine then talking to him at length about how my 5 year old's strumming technique is coming along... I don't see myself spending that kind of time with anyone else in the store BUT and here's the BIG turn around (I capitalized to catch people's attention here)
I would imagine that I see him differently now because he seems to stand out more than most. Noone else in the store has that kind of experience as a sales person in a music store in Saint John!!!

Can you see the clouds parting yet?

Yup! I think given the chance to evolve properly there is a pretty good chance that every person in that store could be a Bill if properly groomed. Sure Matt, you might think that [edited by moderator] doesn't like you and maybe he doesn't but eventually if given the chance and a pinch of respect both of you can figure out how to get what you need as a customer. There also needs to be salespeople that are accessible to all levels of musician... I remember walking into a store when I was a kid and being completely ignored because the one guy who was on the floor was talking to a gigging musician and I obviously was just starting out... I hated that. An even level of attention to all customers is difficult to maintain granted and unless I'm in a real hurry I don't mind stepping aside to have someone like Peter so he can talk to a kid about a entry level guitar.

As far as Long and McQuade as a Fast food chain... there are aspects about the store which I appreciate and others I dislike completely. The problem with a chain which is Nation wide is that they need to keep operations and policies consistant across Canada... It will never be a Morris Music with it's local flare nor should it be. Some rules can be broken if the sales person has the authority (that's why I mentioned being handed a $3000 guitar to lend to a friend) but if their hands are tied than there's no changing the situation.


I get great service from some more than others at different times... some people are more consistant than others and some will never give me what I need from a sales person but I can still go in there and chat about stuff, buy stuff, try out stuff and hopefully some of these guys will some day know what kind of strings my kid likes before he says it Admittedly I find some things frustrating such as being cut off mid conversation/sale so someone can chat with someone who might want to spend $50 more than me... I must say I hope that any kind of tutoring that the staff has recieved from their boss from Halifax is taken with a grain of salt... I'm guessing that what ever cookie cutter management style Long and McQuade have tried to get Halifax to use has been warped and lost in the dish washer.

I'm a big fan of having a store like Long and McQuade in the city. If nothing else without the store, I wouldn't be able to met up with most of you in person on a Saturday afternoon... Nothing better than a good Pow Wow about the biz and the scene....

Must stop rambling....
W
Last edited by warrbeat on Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby giggleycraft » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:56 am

I had a great experience with Pete there when I got my Yamaha electric cello. I had walked in to get a MIDI cable for my keyboard. As soon as I came in, Pete said "Did Dan tell you what we got in last night?" I hadn't been talking to Dan, so I said no. Pete "We got a Yamaha electric cello (SVC 50), do you want to play it?" That was a no brainer, I'd been wanting one of those for at least 15 years. He got me set up with a big Traynor keyboard amp (that sounded great with the cello), a bow some rosin, and I got plenty of time to play around. I wound up buying it later that afternon after calling the bank to increase my debit limit for the day :)

Editted, cause I realized I had names mixed up. I'm really terrible with name.
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Postby warrbeat » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:21 am

see what I mean... each to his or her own personality and interest I guess... I believe the key for Matt is respect, consistancy and efficiency and Bill meets that criteria for Matt (and others). [edited by moderator] [Some] may do the same for others that walk in the store. I discuss computer interfaces wth Dan, mics and other sound equipment with Tim, drum heads with Peter, my kid's guitar with Bill, electronic drums with Geoff, Steve's personal project with Steve LOL and I don't really know Phil that much but we've all collectively shared a few chuckles when the store is quiet.... Do they all like me... maybe maybe not... do they all devote all of their time to me when I'm in the store and it's quiet... no but I know I can drop in and hang out with musicians and buy stuff when I need it.

Remember, the was 6 other types of UP before they found 7th one that MOST people like... other people still prefer Sprite.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:51 am

giggleycraft wrote:I had a great experience with Pete there when I got my Yamaha electric cello. I had walked in to get a MIDI cable for my keyboard. As soon as I came in, Pete said "Did Dan tell you what we got in last night?" I hadn't been talking to Dan, so I said no. Pete "We got a Yamaha electric cello (SVC 50), do you want to play it?" That was a no brainer, I'd been wanting one of those for at least 15 years. He got me set up with a big Traynor keyboard amp (that sounded great with the cello), a bow some rosin, and I got plenty of time to play around. I wound up buying it later that afternon after calling the bank to increase my debit limit for the day :)

Editted, cause I realized I had names mixed up. I'm really terrible with name.

That makes a whole heck of a lot more sense now. Thanks for clarifying :lol:


Warren: you bring up some very valid points and I'll address them in a bit. I've been really busy at work since I've been back so I don't have the time I normally do to post. I'll try to give a proper response to your post by the end of business though.
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Postby giggleycraft » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:04 pm

Yeah, I thought of that after I posted. Hadn't had any caffeine yet, lol. Just had the wrong name associated with the face. With any business everyone's experiences are different.

It really does suck when you don't get the service you expect, or worse, don't get the service other people get.
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Postby brianm » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:14 pm

My name is Brian McConnell L&M District Manager for Atlantic Canada. The discussion posted here is now circulating around Long & McQuade. I’d like to start off by stating that I have worked in the music business for about thirty years, In Canada, the U.S. and abroad and there are two things that brought me back to L&M: (I worked in the Toronto store for nine years at the beginning of my career) the opportunity to live in Atlantic Canada, where I have family and the chance to work with the most honest and honourable company I have ever known. L&M’s commitment to customer satisfaction is deep and receives discussion time at virtually every meeting.

Having said that we understand that we are far from perfect and our quest for the best possible customer service is contingent on making sure that each of us throughout the company is committed to constant improvement. The most important measure of our success in all of this is customer satisfaction. In other words; if your experience in our store is in any way disappointing then we have failed. If we’re lucky, you will express your dissatisfaction directly to us and provide us with the opportunity to learn and improve. Not that that we take any pleasure in hearing of our short-comings but we appreciate the input and we do take it to heart.

This brings me to this thread. If you are interested in contacting us directly and giving us the chance to correct the problems that caused this discussion then I invite you to contact the store manager Steve Zaat, myself or Company President Steve Long. You have Steve Long’s contact info and you can find contact info for Steve Zaat and me below.

Sincerely,

Brian McConnell
902-496-6929 ext222
bmcconnell@long-mcquade.com

Steve Zaat – Saint John Manager
506-672-2937
szaat@long-mcquade.com
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:25 pm

warrbeat wrote:...consistancy...
This is of paramount importance.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:14 am

warrbeat wrote:
Yup! I think given the chance to evolve properly there is a pretty good chance that every person in that store could be a Bill if properly groomed. Sure Matt, you might think that Geoff doesn't like you and maybe he doesn't but eventually if given the chance and a pinch of respect both of you can figure out how to get what you need as a customer. There also needs to be salespeople that are accessible to all levels of musician... I remember walking into a store when I was a kid and being completely ignored because the one guy who was on the floor was talking to a gigging musician and I obviously was just starting out... I hated that. An even level of attention to all customers is difficult to maintain granted and unless I'm in a real hurry I don't mind stepping aside to have someone like Peter so he can talk to a kid about a entry level guitar.

I respect what you are saying and I've taken a bit of time to think about it. However it really has no relavence in my case as it's not a matter of some people are better tailored to me, some people are downright dropping the ball on me.

warrbeat wrote:As far as Long and McQuade as a Fast food chain... there are aspects about the store which I appreciate and others I dislike completely. The problem with a chain which is Nation wide is that they need to keep operations and policies consistant across Canada... It will never be a Morris Music with it's local flare nor should it be. Some rules can be broken if the sales person has the authority (that's why I mentioned being handed a $3000 guitar to lend to a friend) but if their hands are tied than there's no changing the situation.

If only it actually were consistant that would be one thing. But when my business partner is told that he can't do something in SJ, yet Moncton says that it's no problem, I fail to see how that demonstrates the consistancy that you'd expect to get in a large chain. I know their employees get sent off for training, but I think that for the most part some people are simply phoning it in, which is a large part of our issue.

warrbeat wrote:I get great service from some more than others at different times... some people are more consistant than others and some will never give me what I need from a sales person but I can still go in there and chat about stuff, buy stuff, try out stuff and hopefully some of these guys will some day know what kind of strings my kid likes before he says it Admittedly I find some things frustrating such as being cut off mid conversation/sale so someone can chat with someone who might want to spend $50 more than me... I must say I hope that any kind of tutoring that the staff has recieved from their boss from Halifax is taken with a grain of salt... I'm guessing that what ever cookie cutter management style Long and McQuade have tried to get Halifax to use has been warped and lost in the dish washer.

Why must we expect less than great service? I'm in there to do business, if the business is handled well I love shooting the breeze as much as anyone. But business first. If they can't handle our business then we start looking elsewhere.

warrbeat wrote:I'm a big fan of having a store like Long and McQuade in the city. If nothing else without the store, I wouldn't be able to met up with most of you in person on a Saturday afternoon... Nothing better than a good Pow Wow about the biz and the scene....

I have nothing against Long & McQuade being in SJ, I really do prefer dealing with big retailers. The thing is that I'm not getting a big retailer, I'm getting the name of a big retailer with all of the problems of the old Hugga Guitar and none of the flexibility. So It's lose-lose.

warrbeat wrote:Must stop rambling....
W

Probably, but don't stop reading...
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:20 pm

brianm wrote:My name is Brian McConnell L&M District Manager for Atlantic Canada. The discussion posted here is now circulating around Long & McQuade.

Welcome to our humble little site, Brian. I'm glad you could join our discussion. Please feel free to stay a while; you and your friends are most welcome here.

brianm wrote: I’d like to start off by stating that I have worked in the music business for about thirty years, In Canada, the U.S. and abroad and there are two things that brought me back to L&M: (I worked in the Toronto store for nine years at the beginning of my career) the opportunity to live in Atlantic Canada, where I have family and the chance to work with the most honest and honourable company I have ever known. L&M’s commitment to customer satisfaction is deep and receives discussion time at virtually every meeting.

I'd like to start off by stating that I've been in this business for 15 years all across North America, and I've never seen such lack of commitment to customer satisfaction anywhere across across Canada or the US.

brianm wrote:Having said that we understand that we are far from perfect and our quest for the best possible customer service is contingent on making sure that each of us throughout the company is committed to constant improvement. The most important measure of our success in all of this is customer satisfaction. In other words; if your experience in our store is in any way disappointing then we have failed. If we’re lucky, you will express your dissatisfaction directly to us and provide us with the opportunity to learn and improve. Not that that we take any pleasure in hearing of our short-comings but we appreciate the input and we do take it to heart.

I get that you have to be politically correct in a public forum, but this sounds like we're being handled. I'm done being handled, I was tired of it from the local manager, and I'm certainly not going to accept it from his manager either.

brianm wrote:This brings me to this thread. If you are interested in contacting us directly and giving us the chance to correct the problems that caused this discussion then I invite you to contact the store manager Steve Zaat, myself or Company President Steve Long. You have Steve Long’s contact info and you can find contact info for Steve Zaat and me below.


Steve [Zaat] has had my cell phone number since the first day he walked into town to take over the Musicstop acquisition. He's hired our studio to track part of his album. I've played on stage numerous times with the man. We're not strangers. For you to post in this thread and for neither myself or Malcolm to have been contacted privately by yourself or him gives me the impression that you aren't so much interested in helping us as you are in saving face. I'm still waiting for a reply to the email I sent to Steve in September when he dropped the ball on an order I made to accommodate a client of ours that had requested a certain product. I received no reply, thus I went from frustrated to simply put off.

If your interest was really to deal with this genuinely I'd have already received a PM or an email from you, or Steve would have given you my number and you would have contacted either Malcolm or myself directly in tandem with your politically correct post. Since all you've done is make a post to try to save face, I'll presume that your motives are now of a self-preservatory fashion and I reject your offer to now handle this privately.

This issue is far larger than myself as well, many other local organizations are taking issue to the services they are getting, some are being silenced, other simply don't have the desire to get into it and would rather just stop dealing with the store altogether and say nothing.

I will do no such thing. I don't answer to anyone that you can manipulate and I'm not interested in being handled. I can't be bought or manipulated because I don't need you. If we need pro audio solutions, Solotech in Montreal is a world-class retailer and has some of the best customer service we've ever encountered. Same can be said about Steve's Music for musical gear, and Just Drums when I need to talk to guys that specialize in drums. We don't need a store front; we need to be served properly and without incident. We don't mind at all doing it by correspondence, so long as we are treated with the attention to detail that all customers should be entitled to.

The average customer off the street has no idea what he/she is looking for, so they are easy to please, you'll likely not get any complaints from them. The rest of us go in there knowing what we expect to get out of our transaction. It's those clients that you're losing. We go in with model and part numbers and request specific things. It does require more effort than attending to a cash register, but that's what their training should cover. You're losing larger clients due to a lot of oversights. That's my point in all of this.

Brian, I have made this public because it's where I feel it now belongs. I presume that Steve [Zaat] is being prevented from participating in this discussion witch is unfortunate. However I certainly understand why a decision like that would have been reached. As an organization you need to be careful about what you say publicly to avoid bad PR, and you can't risk Steve making it worse. But you've all had your chance, time and time again, to avoid this. Now it's made its way online, and you have to deal with a problem that's been put aside for far too long. I'm speaking on behalf of not only myself here, but on behalf of all of the people I talk to daily that have their own stories that they unfortunately don't take up directly with the offender themselves. There's no going back at this point. It's just a matter of seeing where it goes from this point forward.

However, here we will conduct ourselves openly and notoriously.

Cheers,

Mathieu Benoit
Fluid Productions


-Edited for grammar and clarification.
Last edited by Mathieu Benoit on Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Scott DeVarenne » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:30 pm

For the record, Mathieu/Drumwaiter is not speaking on my behalf.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:54 pm

Scott DeVarenne wrote:For the record, Mathieu/Drumwaiter is not speaking on my behalf.

You're right. You've never expressed any problems with me at all. Mind you, we also don't speak to each other all that often either. I'm glad that you are in the exception to the types of issues I'm describing and I hope that continues to be the case for you.
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Postby clinton » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:24 pm

oh man if high ups are reading this thread then let me take the opportunity to say that Dan Chamberlain should get a massive raise. He is hands down one of the best salesmen any music store in these parts has ever seen.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:26 pm

clinton wrote:oh man if high ups are reading this thread then let me take the opportunity to say that Dan Chamberlain should get a massive raise. He is hands down one of the best salesmen any music store in these parts has ever seen.
Nicely done.
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Postby zaat » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:39 pm

The following was sent to me via e-mail earlier today, with Steve asking me to place it here for him. I'm posting this under his username to avoid any misquoting or misunderstanding.

Malcolm Boyce
Site Admin


Hello and greetings to the many of you who have been reading this thread. I’ve been staying out of this discussion not because I’m being censored as Matt speculated but because I don’t see the dialogue here as being constructive. I’ll bet most of those viewing this thread would prefer that these types of issues be more discreet not just for saving face but because most of us like to deal with difficult situations in private.

I’m going to be selective about what I say here and I hope the reasons for that are obvious. It may be construed as spin and will probably be broken down and analyzed as flawed but I accept that so here we go.

There is a large focus on customer service here at L&M and I have no doubts that Brian’s comments about wanting to do better are sincere as are mine. Mistakes happen but we want to learn from them.

This store has six staff members who show up to work each day at a place they feel is enjoyable, enriching and ultimately making a difference. Do you remember when you got your first instrument and how that impacted your life?

I feel bad for the guys here that have to see their roles here at the store so heavily scrutinized like we’re characters on a sit-com. (I want to be played by Dick Van Dyke) I see that we are not alone though and there are other local businesses that employ musicians that are also subject to mean spirited criticisms and I guess that’s what happens on this forum and I can always choose not to partake.

That’s all you’ll hear from me publicly on this matter but I will reiterate that I can be contacted at any time if you the reader feels we have fallen short and you would like to discuss it.

Email me at
szaat@long-mcquade.com

But I’d rather you called at 672-2937

All the best
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Postby jammy jamz » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:58 pm

wow.

whres the popcorn eating emoticon when i need it. i'ld tell you all what i think, but really.........who cares.

but, matt, i can feel your pain, when you say that you ordered something well in advance, only to find out, it wasnt even ordered. man, that would chap my leather pants super bad. especially if you needed it (which of course you would, or you would've just bought it off ebay, or whatver)

but, i have to say, i've only had good things happen for me, when i go into that store. i deal with bill, peter, or dan....and, with what they have to work with, my experiences, have been almost all positive.

.... all the folks in there seem to really love thier jobs. i miss scotty, but, you know, life's hard.

kinda like haiti. :-(
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:40 pm

zaat wrote:...I see that we are not alone though and there are other local businesses that employ musicians that are also subject to mean spirited criticisms and I guess that’s what happens on this forum and I can always choose not to partake...
Like in life, in this forum you get the bad with the good.

Steve's comment about this not being a "constructive" debate is unfortunate because it's up to him and his staff to do something "constructive" with the information they are gathering as a result of this thread. The best thing that could happen to them is for Matt to come in here in the future to talk about the great turn around that occurred with him and his dealings with Saint John L&M. Will that happen and who's responsibility is it to head in that direction? Matt's or L&M's?

Yes we all make mistakes in our respective jobs, but when dealing in service based industries, your reputation and ability to maintain it is everything. I believe Matt has suggested that in his experience, the "mistakes" have become the rule, and not the exception. I understand his "rant", and his want to display it.

I, unfortunately, have had some similar experiences, with our local branch. Will I personally still on occasion shop at L&M Saint John? Yes. Will I be likely to take time or quality sensitive business elsewhere in fear of the service I may or may not receive?... Yes as well. In Saint John, they are still the best option for most of what they do, IMO.

The quest for "private" handling of matters such as these by the management of L&M seems a little bizarre to me since Brian McConnell himself joined in the "public" debate instead of contacting Matt directly. I have to agree that this smacks of by the book, PR damage control, instead of a sincere attempt to change Matt's take on what has been happening to him. I'm happy to say that the moderators of our modest little place here are not anonymous in any way, and include contact information in their details. No one here is hiding behind anything to take cheap shots at persons or businesses.

If you shop at Kent Building Supplies, or Atlantic Superstore, and several times receive unsatisfactory customer service, do you call their managers? Most likely not. If you're like most people, you start spending your money at Home Hardware, and Sobeys.

Regarding L&M in our area, let's not forget that it is still in transition to being an L&M from it's recent prior incarnations as other music stores. The lineage of our store in SJ is traced back to Hugga Gtr, and the Moncton Store to "Moncton Music Centre". I traveled many times to Moncton to meet my MI needs, even when I had more "local" places to shop. This was because of my personal experience in dealing with the various choices. No one was more optimistic with the opening of the Saint John "Musicstop", and I unfortunately have found that for many things, I would still rather deal with the Moncton Store. I find it interesting to hear others echo that sentiment.

As much as our friends at the Saint John L&M are hurt by some of the things in this thread, our friends at the Moncton store are probably happy to hear some of it as well. The bad with the good, once again.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:56 pm

jammy jamz wrote:wow.

whres the popcorn eating emoticon when i need it. i'ld tell you all what i think, but really.........who cares.

but, matt, i can feel your pain, when you say that you ordered something well in advance, only to find out, it wasnt even ordered. man, that would chap my leather pants super bad. especially if you needed it (which of course you would, or you would've just bought it off ebay, or whatver)

but, i have to say, i've only had good things happen for me, when i go into that store. i deal with bill, peter, or dan....and, with what they have to work with, my experiences, have been almost all positive.

.... all the folks in there seem to really love thier jobs. i miss scotty, but, you know, life's hard.

kinda like haiti. :-(
Glad to see you here.

It's a small town. I have great friends that work and shop at L&M Saint John. As I said before... I want them to be a great professional partner, and not a business I shy away from dealing with, and that unfortunately is the way I've been made to feel on occasion.

As someone with some professional influence in our little area, it would be incomplete of me to not make my feelings on a local operator's dealings if it can affect friends or partners and their work or art.

I am very happy to hear about the positive experiences at L&M Saint John, and especially to hear people naming names of those providing great experiences. I agree with what Steve said about the emotional impact their business has on many people. It is very important to those folks.

I have had the pleasure of dealing with many who worked or work at the Saint John store, including our own Andrew MacRae, Bill, Peter, and of course Steve himself. Dan recently provided me with reason to believe he is someone to bet on having a great future there if he decides to stay at L&M. Best wishes.
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Postby Greg H. » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:20 am

I agree with everything about Dan, I'm just a regular guy compared to most of the musicians on this thread, but he's always treated me with respect, and never left me to go take care of a customer with a higher order.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:53 pm

zaat wrote:Hello and greetings to the many of you who have been reading this thread. I’ve been staying out of this discussion not because I’m being censored as Matt speculated but because I don’t see the dialogue here as being constructive.

I appreciate your opinion but I must strongly object to it based on the fact that it is producing a shift in paradigm at your store as I write this message even. You've gotten very complacent over there simply because you've never been under any real scrutiny. Well now you are and it's going to force you into an air of change. That is if you guys are really taking this to heart, and I hope that you are for the sake of the store's reputation.

zaat wrote:I’ll bet most of those viewing this thread would prefer that these types of issues be more discreet not just for saving face but because most of us like to deal with difficult situations in private.

I believe that most viewers of this thread enjoy reading this thread; Why else would they read it? Also it's human nature to enjoy watching these types of events unfold. Most people just prefer to not be implicated. Granted those that are implicated would rather have this not be public, but I think you are mistaken to say that would included viewers that are not directly implicated.

Dealing with situations in private gets us nowhere and you've made that very obvious. In private, I can be ignored, as I feel that I have been. By making this a matter of written public record I have effectively shone a spotlight on your situation so that it may be examined and that it can be fixed. However, just as in any medical operation, the long term benefit can easily be lost in the discomfort of the actual procedure. You're experiencing some growing pains right now. It will pass though, and you'll see that your going to come out of this better for it. However, to say that I've made this public would be a misrepresentation of reality. People have been discussing the exact same problems amongst themselves for a while now. So much, that for most it had become common public knowledge. All I did was tell the internet about it.

zaat wrote:I’m going to be selective about what I say here and I hope the reasons for that are obvious. It may be construed as spin and will probably be broken down and analyzed as flawed but I accept that so here we go.

I'll cut you some slack, but I'll tell you one thing... You'd be FAR more effective as a listener right now than as a speaker.

zaat wrote:There is a large focus on customer service here at L&M and I have no doubts that Brian’s comments about wanting to do better are sincere as are mine. Mistakes happen but we want to learn from them.

In that case I respect that, but you need to listen and acknowledge that there's a problem instead of being defensive. The more defensive you are, the less inclined you are to actually hear the things I'm saying. I can't tell you my truth until you are done trying to tell me yours.

zaat wrote:This store has six staff members who show up to work each day at a place they feel is enjoyable, enriching and ultimately making a difference. Do you remember when you got your first instrument and how that impacted your life?

This site has 5 staff members that barely talk to each other, so you guys win on that one. I do remember getting my first instrument though, it got me the attention of girls and sometimes it still does. The system works.

zaat wrote:I feel bad for the guys here that have to see their roles here at the store so heavily scrutinized like we’re characters on a sit-com. (I want to be played by Dick Van Dyke)

Agreed. However unfortunately you've put me in a position where I felt that the most effective way to improve the overall situation there, is to do exactly that, put the whole thing under scrutiny.

zaat wrote:I see that we are not alone though and there are other local businesses that employ musicians that are also subject to mean spirited criticisms and I guess that’s what happens on this forum and I can always choose not to partake.

I really wish you could have said your peace on this matter without going to that level. You were as instrumental in instigation the negative threads concerning Atlantica as anyone. Just because you now have a good relation with them, doesn't erase the fact that you had gotten a lot of heat from your superiors because you asked me to start a thread that was very negative to Atlantica. I tried my best to keep you out of the line of fire in that but things got very messy when the higher ups got involved. So don't throw stones. We've all made mistakes in our lives and you bringing up that topic serves no purpose here. Just as Warren's post served no purpose here either. When people post things like that on this thread it diminishes the credibility of the thread, by making it seem petty. Let's stay on topic and conduct ourselves with some decorum. Destructive comments like that serve no purpose here, and I don't want anyone thinking any less of you because I've known you long enough to know that you are really above that approach.

zaat wrote:That’s all you’ll hear from me publicly on this matter but I will reiterate that I can be contacted at any time if you the reader feels we have fallen short and you would like to discuss it.

That's all I've heard from you publicly or privately.

I will say this, I doubt you've learned the lesson yet. I say that because the obvious solution has been avoided on your end since the beginning. You still think that this is me or this site being a problem to you. You don't want the problem to go away, you just want the heat to go away. That's why you are being defensive and that's why you can't solve this. So long as you have that attitude you will not succeed in making this go away. You refuse to acknowledge that in the 21st century this is simply a naturally occurring series of events, the internet is a powerfully effective tool, as you are now learning. So this discussion will continue. Not because it's "not constructive" but because it's exactly the opposite. I've said nothing mean-spirited here. I am stating facts based on observations. You simply choose to ignore them. What's worse is that your bosses are also choosing to ignore them. However it's not their problem to deal with, it's yours, and if they haven't made that clear to you yet, I will.

You are quick to say "This thread is hurtful." without saying "How did it come to this?" The latter would serve you much better.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:04 pm

Greg H. wrote:I agree with everything about Dan, I'm just a regular guy compared to most of the musicians on this thread, but he's always treated me with respect, and never left me to go take care of a customer with a higher order.

I'm glad that Dan is getting much praise on here, because he truly does deserve it. He's not the only one though. We do need to give respect where respect is due here. I'm glad to see positive remarks such as this.

On a somewhat related note: I have immense respect for the handful of employees from the Saint John location that have contacted me privately so far to try to resolve this. They embody the spirit of customer service that anyone should strive for. They aren't walking into the conversation trying to defend themselves, the are simple coming in servitude. L&M-SJ is fortunate to have them.
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Postby jammy jamz » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:14 pm

thanks malcolm.

its good to be back.

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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:24 pm

zaat wrote:I’ll bet most of those viewing this thread would prefer that these types of issues be more discreet not just for saving face but because most of us like to deal with difficult situations in private.
I bet persons and businesses that are singled out in those pesky newspaper "letters to the editor" wish that things were kept private as well, but sometimes things need a little light shed on them to get something done. The internet, when it's handled well, is merely a 21st century version of that forum.

zaat wrote:I see that we are not alone though and there are other local businesses that employ musicians that are also subject to mean spirited criticisms and I guess that’s what happens on this forum and I can always choose not to partake.
This thinly veiled attack on what we do here bugged me again when I read it today. We all know who the "other local business(es)" are that you're referring to. It's one, and not several, and although I'm not opening up that debate here, I welcome anyone to correct me about my misunderstandings about that organization and what they are doing.

I was reminded of yet another post in which I believe this group was a very positive resource to a certain local business.

http://forums.middleaudio.com/viewtopic ... =musicstop
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It just fills Forum pages..." --compasspnt

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Postby clinton » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:22 am

jammy jamz wrote:
.... all the folks in there seem to really love thier jobs. i miss scotty, but, you know, life's hard.

kinda like haiti. :-(


I'll chalk this up to not knowing who you are but this comment really seems in poor taste.
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Postby clinton » Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:30 am

Drumwaiter wrote:However it's not their problem to deal with, it's yours, and if they haven't made that clear to you yet, I will.



geesh man, it's a music store, it's not like they knocked up your sister or something.
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