Children & Cats

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Children & Cats

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:05 pm

So I've been thinking about something completely unrelated to music and audio lately... Children and cats. I now seem to have both, and I spend my time trying to draw comparisons. I used to only have cats, but then I met a girl that had 3 kids and the those kids wanted cats so now I live with her, her 3 kids and their 2 cats. We made the decision to not have any kids between us very early on since 3 was a good round number.

My thoughts on having kids were already clear from a young age... IF I was to have kids, I'd adopt. My reasoning for this was fairly clear, it was a pragmatic approach. There are kids starving not only in Africa, there are kids in our own communities that need to be well cared for and their parents are either unable or unwilling to support them so it would make sense to take care of the kids that were already in the world instead of bringing new ones into the world.

It's like cats. It's upsetting to me that people let their genetically potent felines running around all over town making litters of kitten that no one can take care of. Those kittens end up at the overburdened Animal Rescue League hoping that they can find a good home with a family that had the good sense to adopt a kitten instead of trying to make their own, only to end up dumping a box of kittens in front of a convenience store on the east side of town.

That being said people have a strong innate desire to propogate their species and that creates a certain attachment to having one's own children and there seems to be an inverse corelation between education and the number of children in many cases. Not in all cases, (I know doctors with a whole whack of kids) but if you go down to the "boulevard" (as Becca calls it) it doesn't take long to see a certain pattern poverty developing through the generations. Birth control is not something they seem to be overly familiar with down there. It baffles me though since between Jo and I we make a good chunk of money and it still requires careful budgeting to realize our goals. Children are very expensive, and there are unexpected things every other day that conspire to take you to the poor house.

So basically I wanted to open this topic for discussion.

I know many of you don't have children for various reasons, and you may or may not want to talk about the "why" but I'd like to encourage an open discussion on the subject of procreation. The great thing about this subject is that there will no doubt be many different thoughts on it, many different opinions that are all valid based on one's own experiences. I feel that it may be a good discussion where we can all learn a little something about each other while possible gaining some perspective on what I feel is also an important societal topic. All without judging one another for these differences of opinion.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Scott DeVarenne » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:13 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:...people have a strong innate desire to propogate their species...

In general, that is the primary driving force of all life- the survival of it's own genetic code.
I really like cats.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:24 pm

Heavy subject for sure. I just happen to have a baby in the studio as I'm writing this as a matter of fact.

My wife and I have held off having kids for the time being, but the topic has certainly come up. We've actually talked about adopting from Africa or somewhere with too many orphans that need to be looked after, but there's also a lot of factors to take into consideration with moves like that. Even with an infant you don't know what the mother might have done during the pregnancy that could seriously affect the child. A lot of times these won't manifest until later in life, sometimes 5 or 6 but sometimes not until adolesence or early adulthood.

That being said we're enjoying our lifestyle right now and we're not ready to settle down quite yet. I like animals, but I have absolutely no desire to have pets.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby giggleycraft » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:06 pm

Interesting conversation for sure. I have 2 children with my husband, and we've decided 2 is enough for us. I use cloth diapers and nurse the 8 month old. I honestly don't know how low income families can afford disposable diapers and formula.

I'm not a fan of owning cats. I like other people's cats, but have never had any desire to have one of my own. My dog Pepper, on the other hand is the best dog ever. He's also one of the few topics my 8 year old with Asperger's Syndrome will write about, lol.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:24 pm

giggleycraft wrote:My dog Pepper, on the other hand is the best dog ever. He's also one of the few topics my 8 year old with Asperger's Syndrome will write about, lol.


Not giving Pepper to that crazy desperate lady from Kijiji was hands down the best decision I've ever made. I'm very happy for the home you've provided him. Thank you!
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:33 pm

Scott DeVarenne wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:...people have a strong innate desire to propogate their species...

In general, that is the primary driving force of all life- the survival of it's own genetic code.


Absolutely, but there are aspects of our primal instincts that many have come to ignore through better education. We aren't living in a world where we need to worry about propogating the species to ward off extinction. If anything, it's the opposite.

I completely understand the desire to want children though, I take care of 3 kids that aren't mine and I treat them the same as if they were. Some days I wish they were... Some days I realize that it doesn't matter because I'm going to give them all the benefits of being my own children anyways.

It's become a more emotional topic for me, when it used to always be strictly a logical one.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:36 pm

macrae11 wrote:My wife and I have held off having kids for the time being, but the topic has certainly come up. We've actually talked about adopting from Africa or somewhere with too many orphans that need to be looked after, but there's also a lot of factors to take into consideration with moves like that. Even with an infant you don't know what the mother might have done during the pregnancy that could seriously affect the child. A lot of times these won't manifest until later in life, sometimes 5 or 6 but sometimes not until adolesence or early adulthood.


What about children from New Brunswick that need good parents? You guys would make great parents, BTW.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:39 pm

giggleycraft wrote:Interesting conversation for sure. I have 2 children with my husband, and we've decided 2 is enough for us. I use cloth diapers and nurse the 8 month old. I honestly don't know how low income families can afford disposable diapers and formula.


I'm not sure how low income families can afford to have kids. Period. Thankfully we are past the diaper stage, her kids are 10, 7 , and (almost ) 4. But just daycare costs alone for all three kids is about $1200 a month. I can't wait until the oldest is able to babysit, we'll save so much money. Until they start needing other more expensive things that I have yet to consider.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby macrae11 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:55 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
macrae11 wrote:My wife and I have held off having kids for the time being, but the topic has certainly come up. We've actually talked about adopting from Africa or somewhere with too many orphans that need to be looked after, but there's also a lot of factors to take into consideration with moves like that. Even with an infant you don't know what the mother might have done during the pregnancy that could seriously affect the child. A lot of times these won't manifest until later in life, sometimes 5 or 6 but sometimes not until adolesence or early adulthood.


What about children from New Brunswick that need good parents? You guys would make great parents, BTW.


That's an option but there are a couple of issues there too. One is the adoption process is much more complicated and expensive. Two, it's much rarer to be able to adopt very young children which multiplies the issues that I mentioned with children who are orphaned or given up as infants. So many more long term or permanent issues can be created in the first 4 or 5 years of a childs life. Giving them a good home as early as possible can make absolutely life changing differences. Third, kids in Canada will always have some level of safety net to fall into. Obviously it's far from ideal, but it's a far site better than what some kids in third world countries would have to deal with which would be more likely have them living in abject poverty, if they even survive at all.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:23 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:I completely understand the desire to want children though, I take care of 3 kids that aren't mine and I treat them the same as if they were. Some days I wish they were... Some days I realize that it doesn't matter because I'm going to give them all the benefits of being my own children anyways.
Biology does not a parent make.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby giggleycraft » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:24 pm

Mathieu Benoit wrote:
giggleycraft wrote:My dog Pepper, on the other hand is the best dog ever. He's also one of the few topics my 8 year old with Asperger's Syndrome will write about, lol.


Not giving Pepper to that crazy desperate lady from Kijiji was hands down the best decision I've ever made. I'm very happy for the home you've provided him. Thank you!


I'm pretty glad you made that decision too. Pepper will let Jazper pull on his ears, and not so much as growl. When we move the baby away from him, he will follow and lay down next to the baby again, lol. He's the perfect fit to our family :)
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:36 pm

giggleycraft wrote:
Mathieu Benoit wrote:
giggleycraft wrote:My dog Pepper, on the other hand is the best dog ever. He's also one of the few topics my 8 year old with Asperger's Syndrome will write about, lol.


Not giving Pepper to that crazy desperate lady from Kijiji was hands down the best decision I've ever made. I'm very happy for the home you've provided him. Thank you!


I'm pretty glad you made that decision too. Pepper will let Jazper pull on his ears, and not so much as growl. When we move the baby away from him, he will follow and lay down next to the baby again, lol. He's the perfect fit to our family :)

I hope we don't have to change the title of this thread to "...& Dogs", but...

How you integrate and introduce "Dog and Child" has as much to do with how they get along as anything they are predisposed to. I have read much about this topic, and there are ways to make any "family" dog work out with children, and it just takes a little careful attention during that introduction stage.

I'm so happy you have that great relationship with your little ones.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Alain Benoit » Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:00 pm

IF I had wanted kids they would have been adopted period.
I see no need to add to the overpopulation of our planet when other children could clearly use a chance at a better life.
I also have never felt the primal urge to father a biological child.

On the other hand I adore my cat Saba, she is spectacular.

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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Nick H. » Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:42 pm

I agree with what's been said about overpopulation; it's certainly not a problem that is going to diminish in time. That being said, I think I also understand why someone would want a biological child(ren), there's probably something innately satisfying about passing one's own genetics forward; I guess that could also depend on where you side in the whole nature v. nurture debate though.

Personally, I hope to NEVER have children, biological or otherwise. At the same time, I'm currently 20-years-old, so it's probably a positive trait that I'm not looking to intentionally procreate. Maybe I'll change my mind when I'm old.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby macrae11 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:43 am

I was kind of the opposite of you Nick. When I was 18-19 I really wanted to have kids. I worked at summer camps, after school programs etc. Then I got busy with school and work and the desire faded until now I'm just starting to think about it again, but with a bit more pragmatic approach. So things definitely can change.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:53 am

macrae11 wrote:I was kind of the opposite of you Nick. When I was 18-19 I really wanted to have kids. I worked at summer camps, after school programs etc. Then I got busy with school and work and the desire faded until now I'm just starting to think about it again, but with a bit more pragmatic approach. So things definitely can change.


By the time I hit 20 I stopped wanting to have kids at all. Nothing changed, but you can't unring that bell either. These kids have grown on me and I can barely imagine my life without them anymore. I suspect that will just get worse with time. Jo never intended to be a mother, it was justa series of unfortunate circumstances that took her from her path of decoming a doctor to being asingle mother of 3 kids. Now that it's done though, she wouldn't go back in time to change anything.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Burnsy » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:10 pm

My girlfiend has 2 kids, and 2 cats. I have 2 dogs. It's fun.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby macrae11 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:20 pm

Burnsy wrote:My girlfiend has 2 kids, and 2 cats. I have 2 dogs. It's fun.


Girlfiends are cool, but I'm not really into that kind of thing.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Burnsy » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:32 pm

macrae11 wrote:
Burnsy wrote:My girlfiend has 2 kids, and 2 cats. I have 2 dogs. It's fun.


Girlfiends are cool, but I'm not really into that kind of thing.


Not THAT kind of fun. I meant more of a "on the verge of losing sanity as my quiet home has turned into a rampaging zoo of chaos and maelstrom," find of fun.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:43 pm

Burnsy wrote:Not THAT kind of fun. I meant more of a "on the verge of losing sanity as my quiet home has turned into a rampaging zoo of chaos and maelstrom," find of fun.


I feel ya...
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby macrae11 » Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:48 pm

Burnsy wrote:
macrae11 wrote:
Burnsy wrote:My girlfiend has 2 kids, and 2 cats. I have 2 dogs. It's fun.


Girlfiends are cool, but I'm not really into that kind of thing.


Not THAT kind of fun. I meant more of a "on the verge of losing sanity as my quiet home has turned into a rampaging zoo of chaos and maelstrom," find of fun.


I was more referring to the girlFIEND typo.

Freudian slip? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fiend

Draw your own conclusions.
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Malcolm Boyce » Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:50 pm

:lol:
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Burnsy » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:55 pm

Yeah she's trouble. But good trouble, and less trouble than I am, so she keeps me in line. Andrew, I should get bonus marks when I find typos in your exams!
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby macrae11 » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:11 pm

Burnsy wrote:Yeah she's trouble. But good trouble, and less trouble than I am, so she keeps me in line. Andrew, I should get bonus marks when I find typos in your exams!

If you did you'd get all aces. I prefer to just point out your typos here and then call it even! :-D
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Re: Children & Cats

Postby Burnsy » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:17 pm

It's all good. :-D. On a different note, the children are staying with their grandparents until Wednesday. So the gal and I get a couple of nights off from parenting. Parenting is cool, but wow what a breather it is to get some time off.
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