When to Encore?

[Mathieu Benoit]

I obviously come from a bar scene background primarily, so the answer on that front is quite obvious. If the crowd is shouting "Encore!!" or "One more song!!" in a chanting fashion, you should probably do another song, so long as the house lights haven't come on.

But in tradition theatre there isn't "encores" because it's a play not a musical set. I mean what are you gonna do invent more story to act? Obviously a standing ovation in a theatre setting is just to show appreciation for the show that is finished, no one expects there to be more.

Now...I'm in a production that is a mix both venues. It is a musical theatre setting. We usually prepare an "encore" song like a a band would, but this is really a theatre show.

When should an encore be presented in this case? My thoughts and what we have done in the past is wait for a standing ovation. That seems reasonable. But now there are some concerns among us that we are wasting a perfectly good song should we not get the opportunity to play it. In some instances there have been some encores even awkwardly given to crowds that barely responded to the show to begin with. We don't honestly get too many standing ovations lately. Some people here think they obviously would love to hear another one... My thoughts? If that were the case, stand up and let me see it. I hate giving encores when they aren't specifically asking for it, I feel like some sleezy door to door vacuum salesman (No offence to those of you who support your families like this...)

Any thoughts?

[Scott DeVarenne]

Encores. I don't know. But somewhat on topic, as an audience member, I refuse to participate in standing ovations.

[ALaudio]

In my purely professional and unbiased opinion, an encore in that situation is never appropriate. The crowd should be considerate and understand that by requesting another song, they are preventing the sound guy from exiting the the venue in a timely manner, thus eliminating any chance I..... I mean he or she, had at an enjoyable evening.

[Mathieu Benoit]

Dude, that was my answer! You stole it, now give it back!

No one wants out of there quicker than me ALaudio, not even you. Although, you get out very quickly...I never even see you leave!

[Mathieu Benoit]

Encores. I don't know. But somewhat on topic, as an audience member, I refuse to participate in standing ovations.

I agree... Unless I'm REALLY friggin' impressed. I'm rarely that impressed.

[roachie]

...so remember kids, always check with the soundman before even THINKING of playing another song... he holds the master fader!

[Mathieu Benoit]

Myself I don't always automatically want to hear an encore. Unless I was really impressed by the main course. But I may be a bit jaded or whatever... I've been performing for so long that it has kinda taken the magic out of seeing someone else doing it perhaps. For example, if I go see any of the local bands in town that I love, I can't sit through a full 3 or so sets of roughly 4 hours in total without losing my mind. I get bored so easily. It's no disrespect to any of the bands, I just don't have that kind of attention span. I just can't show up at a bar at 10pm and stay until closing, unless I'm paid and obliged to be there.

That being said in musical theatre the setting is a bit different. The idea that everyone seems to be in agreement with is that, we shall give them an encore regardless of their asking for it. This new way does have a lot of merits though...

-We'd stay at instrument positions and bow twice and proceed into the next song, the "encore" if you will. Instead of going to down stage, bowing, then going back up to instrument positions.

-We wouldn't be asking the audience if they'd like to hear another one, only to get no response and give them one anyway. (Don't laugh it's happened, an inexperienced member has once asked "would you like to hear another?" The crowd just sat there silent... and she said "OK!" and told us to get back to our instruments positions...) I felt like a tool.

-We wouldn't be wasting time learning a kickass song only to never play it.

But what if they want to hear a real encore after that? Then we'd have to repeat a song, or learn another encore song that people will complain that we don't play enough.

My thoughts: Learn a kickass encore, ONE wicked song, that blows away most of the other tunes you are playing. Not that you should be playing bad tunes before or anything. This one should just have a little extra "zing". Then night after night, you should strive to earn the right to play that song. I strongly believe that encore is a priviledge given to us by a crowd that has deamed us worthy of it. It's not an automatic right.

Right now when we are not getting standing ovations and not doing encores, it's usually because we put on a less than stellar show, for whatever reason. When we are not on top of our game I don't think we have the right to tell an audience that we, in our infinite wisdom, will grace them with another number. I find it presumptious.

Anyone have different ideas on that?

PS I guess none of this matters if ALaudio has already left the building and shut down the PA and lights...

[oddioguy]

"PLAY WHIPPING POST!!!!!"

[Mathieu Benoit]

Roachie and I can play that for you any Sunday night...if you want to come out. I'll even buy you a beer for attending.

[oddioguy]

Beer and I have been feudin' for 20 odd years. Buy me rum instead?

[oddioguy]

*rescues thread from highjackers*

Piss-poor bands get encores in bars, as drunks are not too hard to impress.
I've always liked the idea of keeping one highly polished gem in reserve for a "real" encore....as opposed to repeating a popular number from the setlist.
And "yes", an encore should be truly earned. If the crowd has not shut up 5 minutes after black-out, march back on stage without a word, and as a unit, hit 'em right between the eyes with your encore number. No fumbling around, no discussion, just strap on and WHAM!.

As for a theatrical setting, encores are right out. No exceptions. Take a 2nd bow, but no encores.

[Mathieu Benoit]

Rum it is! I'll even provide an alibi for the wifey, if you need it.

[Mathieu Benoit]

*rescues thread from highjackers*

As for a theatrical setting, encores are right out. No exceptions. Take a 2nd bow, but no encores.

I agree. Unless it's really earned like you said for the bar scene. This is a musical theatre setting so the rules are a bit more ambiguous. I just hate feeling as if I'm force feeding them something they didn't ask for. Am I that pig headed to think I'm so good that they'd obviously want an encore even though they look at us blankly looking for their jackets and the exit?

Besides ALaudio likely has a hot date to get to.

[Mathieu Benoit]

I'm dying for Roachie's serious response to this. I'd like to have his take on it, whether he agrees or not. Roachie?

[oddioguy]

*rescues thread from highjackers*

As for a theatrical setting, encores are right out. No exceptions. Take a 2nd bow, but no encores.

....Am I that pig headed to think I'm so good that they'd obviously want an encore even though they look at us blankly looking for their jackets and the exit?....

Not at all. It's not something that you force down an audiences' throat.

[roachie]

Nothing made me feel worse than giving the audience another song when they don't really want it... I've been into the first bar of a tune and watched people take their jackets back off and sit back down. That sucks, and I ALWAYS encouraged whomever decides to do another tune to make damn sure they want one. We have been in the position where we've done an encore "because we were told to" and I rolled my eyes a bit...

On the other hand, all the tunes should kick-ass, so what's one more to learn... if they really want one, give'em one.

[ALaudio]

My only observation on the specific situation that Mathieu has described is that encores are now being given every night unless the crowd responds in a particularly quiet and unenthusiastic manner. Previously, encores were given only to crowds that were especially loud and responsive, which in my opinion is a much better system. I'm not against encores on a good night, even if I do have a "hot date" (watching TV alone), because there have been shows where the energy was great in the room and everybody was still enjoying themselves.

[Malcolm Boyce]

Encores and Standing-"O"s both have been devalued.

That being said, those with experience can tell the difference between the common lame-o, and the real deal.

When it's for real... it's pretty awesome.

Doing something because it's planned and on the list, instead of it being asked for, really comes across as lame from all angles. I remember being at a certain singer/songstress' show at SJHS some years ago that seemed to go on a little too long to begin with. After what seemed like the last song, and a lapse in activity, many audience members including my group started to leave, only to have the artist return to the stage to do, presumably an "encore". I was far enough away from my seat, that I continued out the door. No one was asking for more, except the artist and/or her handlers.

I have a memory of hearing her exclaim something as I was exiting like "wait, I've got one more"...

[oddioguy]

indeed.

[Mathieu Benoit]

So here is what was decided. Regardless of my disagreement.

We will do an "encore" every night. The way we will proceed is to finish the play itself and tag it with a song, like is normally the case. Then without leaving our instruments we will bow twice in place, and while they are still applauding we will prepare and do a second song without asking them if they want it. Although it was proposed that the cast captain's discretion we can still ask them if they want to hear another. Regardless they are getting it. So I'd sooner not ask them the question. At least that way it's not really an encore at all and just an additional song in the program.

Again I need to reaffirm myself. The nature of an encore is a song that is a privilegde that you get to perform if you were deserving of it. So in this case an automatic encore is not an encore at all, simply an extra song in act three. I just hope no one ever asks them if "They want to hear another" unless the entire room is on their feet demanding it. I can sleep better at night if we just did the second song and didn't ask stupid questions, that make us look desperate.

The decision (I believe) to fuck with a system that was working fine before, is because certain people feel that they shouln't put time into learning a song if we're not always gonna get to do it. Well folks, that's just the way things are sometime. You can't always get to do an encore. Especially if you have a sub par show. Why not put the emphasis on doing a better performance thus assuring the encore demand?

The only salvation here is the return our "real" cast captain that has the sense to not ask dumb questions. As opposed to the temp that we currently have, that has no business being in a position to make any decision when that stage is concerned. No this isn't karaoke night at the Drunken Clam, walk away.

ALaudio... cancel that hot date.

[oddioguy]

This parallels restaurants that charge you a 10 or 15% gratuity. They assume that their service is at such a high level that you would automatically pay it anyway, so they've just saved you the embarassment of miscalculating it yourself.
(...and yes, I have resused to pay the extra, and walked out.)

Sounds pretty egotistical to me, Mat.

[Mathieu Benoit]

My thoughts exactly... I'm gonna go finish chapter 3 of the Flaming Bird Chronicles now... because I want to get to the point where we've let things like this happen, it wasn't always this bad. The wrong people are making decisions about things that they have no authority to speak about. Chapter 4 and 5 will discuss how we've gotten to this low. Seriously, they can't just leave good enough alone, they seem to always be looking for new ways to screw something up.

That being said... 61 days left!