Here's one for ya(s)

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Here's one for ya(s)

Postby roachie » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:32 pm

A friend of mine bought a high-end Taylor acoustic for a pretty penny. It plays like a dream, sounds fantastic, and looks good, but there is something wrong with the pickup system. Apparently the problem is common with all Taylors of the same series.

When "Tony" turns his treble up, it makes a hiss... kinda like a fan sound... It does not happen when he changes his bass knob, or volume knob... only the treble... We took it to a P.A. system and plugged it into the D.I. box, compared the ground lift on/ground lift off, and it made no difference. Tony has tried it through a wireless system, and the problem was no more... (apparently).

In conclusion, I am wondering if you guys know what the F#%K is wrong with Tony's guitar. I am no electronicician, but I think that his problem is his pickup system, cause I was sure on the ground thing, and I was wrong.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:28 am

The wireless could merely be gating the noise out via a noise reduction system. It is possible that it is quiet not connected directly to a device powered by an AC source.

Before going into looking at the guitar, I would suggest plugging it into several things, in several different places to reference how it reacts to different input systems.

I'm sure Thom will have more to say.
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Postby macrae11 » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:30 am

Yeah the new Taylors are known for having hums, because they are very susceptible to ground loops. But i've never heard a Taylor with a "hiss". Was it a new purchase? What model is it?
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Postby Alain Benoit » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:01 pm

If it is a hum the wireless rig would eliminate it due to true isolation.
If it is a hiss the wireless rig may be eliminating it through a built in gate like Malcolm said.
Tony explained to me that this was a design problem, not a fault.
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Postby roachie » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:28 pm

It's a Taylor 714 CE. Definitely a hiss, not a hum. It's on forums all over the place. They don't specify that it's the treble knob, but it is on this axe. That's all I can tell you for now... any ideas?
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:48 pm

I've used this guitar in recordings last month, and I must say that the hiss is so quiet that I really have to crank my entire gain structure all the way up to notice it fully. At that level, the guitar being strum would like kill my speakers and/or ears. At normal recording volume and settings, I can't tell the difference between the hiss and the air passing by the sound hole.... :-P

My question is though... Is this a picky audiophile thing, or is this a realistic problem for the average ears. Has anyone other than Roachio and I had a listen to it.

What do you think Roach? Do you find it workable? I agree it isn't "perfect" but is it really a "problem" is my question...
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Postby clinton » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:15 am

Drumwaiter wrote:I've used this guitar in recordings last month, and I must say that the hiss is so quiet that I really have to crank my entire gain structure all the way up to notice it fully. At that level, the guitar being strum would like kill my speakers and/or ears. At normal recording volume and settings, I can't tell the difference between the hiss and the air passing by the sound hole.... :-P



you record acoustic guitars plugged in?
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Postby Alain Benoit » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:45 am

Just because its plugged in does not mean that there are not at least two or three mics on it.
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Postby Mathieu Benoit » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:26 am

Alain Benoit wrote:Just because its plugged in does not mean that there are not at least two or three mics on it.


Absolutely. I don't usually rely on any one source. I like to have the option of blending multiple sources. Besides the expression system sounds quite nice on it's own as well. There's nothing to it. Plug the guitar in to record the source as well as whatever mic and preamp you have already on it. It certainly doesn't hurt anything, or take much time. Even if you end up not using it at all... :-P
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Postby macrae11 » Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:53 pm

I have recorded a Taylor 414ce w/ expression system direct with no other mics in the room. It was a less than ideal situation that we were making the best of, but the tracks turned out very acceptable considering it was a background part. Wouldn't want to try it on a solo acoustic piece but...

It's by far the best sounding plugged in guitar that I've ever heard. Only thing that's in the same ballpark is the LR Baggs Ibeam into their preamp.

Don't even get me started on Fishman.
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Postby clinton » Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:10 am

I suppose it makes sense.....I'm a wee bit of a purist myself and have always requested two condensors on my deadnaughts but I definately get what you're saying.

Speaking of which gents, I'm looking to put a pick up in a beautiful old D-55 Guild. I'm thinking of the LR Baggs M1 or a Fishman Rare Earth. Anyone got any advice for a fella? I need something that will sound good even in small PA systems like at coffee houses as well in larger bar venues...
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Postby macrae11 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:03 am

I can't say that I've personally heard either of these mics, at least not that I know of. I do know that I have only heard a precious few acoustic soundhole pickups that I didn't actually abhor. The nice thing with these pickups though, is that if you can find a shop that has both of them, you could ab them and see if they do what you want.

Personally I would go with an Ibeam over any other aftermarket pickup that I have ever heard.
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Postby macrae11 » Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:06 am

Oh and by the way Clinton, the Taylor 414 incident was the only time I've ever used a plugged in guitar in the studio in the finished product.

It's usually a U87 or a pair of AKG 414's in MS depending on what the track is asking for.
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Postby Malcolm Boyce » Sat Apr 19, 2008 2:45 pm

clinton wrote:you record acoustic guitars plugged in?
I consider a well miced, especially stereo and in a good space, to be the "grand piano" of acoustic guitar sounds. Much as you don't always want a grand piano sound, I don't always want that kind of acoustic guitar sound.

If the track is going to be dominated by the guitar, with it maintaining focus in the piece, than yes, a fab stereo miced setup will usually be king. If the acoustic is going to be only part of a dense electric mix, a lot of the time a "direct" acoustic guitar will fit in easier, and blend better than the alternative.

I have heard far more acoustic instruments with underwhelming electronics, but I have had the pleasure of mixing live and recording some of the finest "plugged in" instruments of their kind.
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