Malcolm Boyce wrote:I don't think there are many events not happening in the Saint John area because there isn't anywhere to play.
Alain Benoit wrote:Malcolm Boyce wrote:I don't think there are many events not happening in the Saint John area because there isn't anywhere to play.
I am certain that a lack of venues is not an issue currently plaguing concert opportunities around here either.
Burnsy wrote:On the same topic, but not really.... is there anything on the scene that is involving UNB, or the community colleges in any way in Saint John? I know UNB used to have performances for local artists/bands back 10-15 years ago. The colleges, not so much. The reason I ask is because I'm studying in Fredericton...and students here get out to these events. It seems to not matter so much if there are bands presenting their own material, or a cover band....people just get out. Maybe it's demographics?
Everywhere Southside Fredericton is within 20 minutes of walking distance to everywhere else. 2 universities, a number of colleges......When I played in Fredericton a few weeks back, at the Crowne Plaza.... it was a decent turnout. I played all original songs, and the crown was more or less attentative. When I played the Ale House, which was a blast by the way.... I played 4-5 originals, after which point people started saying... play some Pearl Jam! Play some ACDC! I lovingly obliged. But I'm wondering is there just something different going on between the musical psyche of an audience based on demographic alone?
My suspicions are yes. I've wondered if an audience, for the most part at these gigs, want to come out to hear that old familiar juke box song they can stomp their foot to, and belt out the chorus line with the performer... do people generally enjoy that more than an artist playing his or her own stuff. It probably depends on a variety of factors... I find, living in Fredericton, that audiences here really come out to hear original material. Is this happening in Saint John? You see, I'm really interested in putting a band together, and a band that wants to work on original material. I have tons. So a serious business question I'm asking myself, is do I put together a band for playing parties, weddings, essentially a cover band....or do I stick with putting a band together for pursuing original music. Someone told me to do both....hmmmmm...... thinking out loud.
Mathieu Benoit wrote:Burnsy wrote:On the same topic, but not really.... is there anything on the scene that is involving UNB, or the community colleges in any way in Saint John? I know UNB used to have performances for local artists/bands back 10-15 years ago. The colleges, not so much. The reason I ask is because I'm studying in Fredericton...and students here get out to these events. It seems to not matter so much if there are bands presenting their own material, or a cover band....people just get out. Maybe it's demographics?
Everywhere Southside Fredericton is within 20 minutes of walking distance to everywhere else. 2 universities, a number of colleges......When I played in Fredericton a few weeks back, at the Crowne Plaza.... it was a decent turnout. I played all original songs, and the crown was more or less attentative. When I played the Ale House, which was a blast by the way.... I played 4-5 originals, after which point people started saying... play some Pearl Jam! Play some ACDC! I lovingly obliged. But I'm wondering is there just something different going on between the musical psyche of an audience based on demographic alone?
My suspicions are yes. I've wondered if an audience, for the most part at these gigs, want to come out to hear that old familiar juke box song they can stomp their foot to, and belt out the chorus line with the performer... do people generally enjoy that more than an artist playing his or her own stuff. It probably depends on a variety of factors... I find, living in Fredericton, that audiences here really come out to hear original material. Is this happening in Saint John? You see, I'm really interested in putting a band together, and a band that wants to work on original material. I have tons. So a serious business question I'm asking myself, is do I put together a band for playing parties, weddings, essentially a cover band....or do I stick with putting a band together for pursuing original music. Someone told me to do both....hmmmmm...... thinking out loud.
A good hypothesis. I think however that the big difference in Saint John is that they stuck the university campus in the middle of nowhere and it cuts off much the student traffic by forcing them to have to make special trips into town to do anything. Fredericton (and most university cities for that matter) don't have that particular oversight to deal with.
All this.Chuck Teed wrote:Not a big fan of the article - artists that want to play in Saint John will find a room, or someone who will host an event on their behalf. Venues come and go - I'll start raising my voice in concern when the people who put on events start leaving town.
Christian LeBlanc wrote:Alain Benoit wrote:Malcolm Boyce wrote:I don't think there are many events not happening in the Saint John area because there isn't anywhere to play.
I am certain that a lack of venues is not an issue currently plaguing concert opportunities around here either.
sean.boyer wrote:I fully beg to differ on this matter. Outside of a very narrow list of genres (folk/roots, "jam", "cover bands" and "famous acts" [read: Pauly D, etc]), there is an enormous gap in the types of music that are able to book shows in this city.
Perhaps I'm mostly speaking to the "fringe" artists, but let me tell you: they make up a vast portion of the musical melting pot in this country.
I could spend all day long naming acts that such venues as Vintage, Peppers, Imperial, etc (actually - gee, what's left...?) wouldn't even dream of booking here, but enjoy great success in just about any other city in this country.
I can't think of anywhere in town that has an adequate stage/PA/space/staff/etc that would touch the following broad genres: metal, punk, hard jazz, experimental, industrial, live electronica, avant-guard, etc etc. Even bigger named acts of those genres will be turned down. For example, a metal band called Darkest Hour who toured on Oz Fest, or 3 Inches of Blood who are on Guitar Hero, wouldn't find a place to book them in Saint John.
sean.boyer wrote:Need some context? Think Elwoods. Or, even better, think the Sunstar Lounge. While I realise that most of the members of this board had probably never been to the Sunstar, you should all have a grasp on what kind of music was typical at Elwoods. It was basically "everything else", and for someone like me (and hundreds of others in this city) that was a blessing. It was the only place many would go to see shows not because of some form of Brand Loyalty, but because it was the only place they could go in town to see the bands that they otherwise would have had to have driven to Fredericton/Moncton/Halifax or beyond to see. Trust me. I was one of them, and guess what I'm doing again...? I'm driving to Fredericton every other week to see a fantastic show that couldn't be booked in Saint John.
A lot of people complain about low attendances in this town. I complain endlessly about that myself. You know what a large part of that is? People are sick to F%^#ing death of Brown Eyed Girl and country songs about dogs and trucks, or "hippy jams" that smell like dirt-oil and go C-G-A-C-D for 6 hours straight. Not everyone mind you, but a lot of us. For example, just about EVERY PERSON I KNOW in this town will avoid going to shows when the bill consists of tired, played out, unoriginal, boring bands, unless it happens to be one of their poor friend's bands, who is only playing in such a band because no one will let their "real" band play at their venue, because they're too "original", and thereby, they either Comply-Or-Die.
You want to talk about the F&$%^ing culture in this city dying, JL and anyone else, look at yourselves and consider how things have run around here for a long long time (with the exception of Elwoods and the Sunstar and maybe a few other places at different times) in respects to what kind of acts a given establishment will book or won't book, and there's your answer. Why do cities like Fredericton, Halifax, Montreal, ANYWHERE ELSE enjoy vibrant culture? Because they book ALL the bands, and you can go see any damn type of music you please on just about any night of the week.
I'm quoting this again as I think it captures the major component of the business we are talking about.Chuck Teed wrote:Not a big fan of the article - artists that want to play in Saint John will find a room, or someone who will host an event on their behalf. Venues come and go - I'll start raising my voice in concern when the people who put on events start leaving town.
sean.boyer wrote:For example, a lot of promoters and show attenders alike complain about shows starting extremely late (sometimes as late as 12 on a weekend night). Yeah, that's crazy. But the reason they start so late is because only a handful of people bother to show up before midnight. Why? Because the shows don't start til midnight. And forever and ever. So, someone has to break the cycle. And stick with it. Not just try for a week and then go back to biz-as-usual. Have a show one Friday, advertise it as 9pm SHARP. No one will show up til 12. They'll miss the band, and the band will play to the walls and their girlfriends (except the drummer who obviously doesn't have a girlfriend). Then the next time, maybe they'll show up on time, because they KNOW that shows start at 9. Period. If not, tough titty man.
sean.boyer wrote:I have tried to explain this to various venue owners and promoters in town over the years and I am apparently wrong, and they are right, obviously, because save for one, they're all out of business now. Why does O'Leary's still have great crowds on Wednesdays, after over 20 years? Because it's a staple. It's ALWAYS the same night at the same place at the same time. People can RELY on it. They don't have to wonder what time it starts, or if it's even going to happen, because it always does.
sean.boyer wrote:As far as the community aspect of Matt's reply, I agree, mostly, with that too. You need a certain amount of guaranteed clientel, or subculture, existing to make it work building in the first place. But, you don't grow a community like that if there's no where for them to "be", man. They will move to Halifax, or Montreal. Happens every day. Part of the problem is that every time a venue starts going, and a community starts building around it, it gets shut down. I've seen this SOOO many times. With the Local, with the Deepend, with Studio 112, with Callahans, with Tapps, with Elwoods, with Sunstar, with Waterfront/Neptunes/Akhord/etc, and on. STABILITY OR BUST.
sean.boyer wrote:This is what MOST other places around here are missing. Stability, repeatability, and something to entice the listener.
Most people who are successful doing this kind of gig usually understand the sentiment, but just don't dig the slagging.sean.boyer wrote:I'd also like to make it absolutely clear that I don't begrudge people who are able to make a living, or supplement a living doing cover music or "boring, tired, whatever other insults I flung earlier". At all. I think it's GREAT. kudos to you! I was just generalizing and bashing on for dramatic effect and brevity. However, I, personally, myself (and a lot of people I know feel the same way) cannot stand listening to those same songs repeated endlessly, week after week, year after year. Sorry. That's just how I roll.
I have seen too many artists sabotage themselves by trying to maintain some kind of "indie" status instead of doing what they need to do to develop and maintain an audience. I'm not talking about changing your music or "selling out" or anything. I've just seen too many examples of people not wanting it to be about business... which it is.sean.boyer wrote:You'll get way more people out to see a band like, say, Bigg Medicine than a band like, say, Hospital Grade. And that makes sense. That's fine. That's expected. It's cool man. As long as people are digging it, and the artists aren't getting ripped off doing it, ALL POWER TO THE PEOPLE. Give the people what they want.
I hear this so many times, but yet I continue to see great, poorly attended performances at Imperial Theatre by cutting edge, world class talent, of all styles. I will be the first to agree that some blame falls on Imperial's inability to capture certain demographic's attention as a "place to go" on date night, but people who continually profess to "seek out new life" but rarely appear at these shows I speak of seem to contradict themselves. I'm certainly not point a finger at you out Sean, but it's something that I hear over and over, while seeing great shows with 300 people at them instead of 800.sean.boyer wrote:With that said, I, and many others like me, need a bit more variety, and believe it's extremely important to bring in "cutting edge" weirdos from all around the world. Variety is the spice of life, blah blah blah blah. There IS a market for it around here, and it was really starting to bloom between the Studio 112/Elwoods era, and was hurt badly when Elwoods went into the toilet, and then months later, closed it's doors.
There need to be more folks like those of us who decide to stay and stick it out and improve things for everyone in this burg. I have seen huge changes for the better just in my 20+ year investment in this business here. I wish I had the advantages people have just coming out of High School now. It can and will change even more. How quickly depends on us getting involved, and getting community oriented. It does work.sean.boyer wrote:Also, I know the Sunstar was an unpleasant experience for a lot of people. It was small. It smelled funny. The floors were stick. Gross drunk weirdos seemingly lived there. The sound was deafening and terrible. It was hard to be in front of the band, on all 12 square feet of viewable area. I get it. What I was referencing, was the fact that that place would book ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE. It's where a lot of younger bands got to cut their teeth. It's where the only punk bands in town got to play (and some of those shows had 150+ people, believe it or not - that that's 150+ punk rocker that are looking to drink a case of beer each. You do the math there for financial viability). It's where a lot of "fringe" bands got to play, where no one else would book them, and people in attendance sometimes left with a new favourite band, or exposed to a new genre, or label... met new friends, all that good stuff. It was a wonderful creative outlet, as you could get away with stuff there that other "serious" places simply wouldn't tolerate (like BA Johnston doing an encore acoustic song crammed into the girls washroom).
As far as the community aspect of Matt's reply, I agree, mostly, with that too. You need a certain amount of guaranteed clientel, or subculture, existing to make it work building in the first place. But, you don't grow a community like that if there's no where for them to "be", man. They will move to Halifax, or Montreal. Happens every day. Part of the problem is that every time a venue starts going, and a community starts building around it, it gets shut down. I've seen this SOOO many times. With the Local, with the Deepend, with Studio 112, with Callahans, with Tapps, with Elwoods, with Sunstar, with Waterfront/Neptunes/Akhord/etc, and on. STABILITY OR BUST.
Toronto has about a dozen venues like this that are friendly to "weirdos" and the fringe. Most of them look like they've been open since the dawn of time, based on how grimey they are. All the ones I'm thinking of off hand have been there a minimum of 10-12 years (Bovine Sex Club, Sneeky Dee's, Fun Haus, Velvet Underground, etc). Same goes, on a smaller scale, for Montreal and Halifax and other citys. Most have several. I'm just askin' for one.
Anyway, I guess it all boils down to what Matt was getting to: one of us needs to win the lottery and build a kick ass venue. If it was me, I'd be booking the craziest bands I could fine, and for once, SJ would be the place that people are driving to from Fredericton/Moncton/Halifax and beyond to attend.
My hot wind forum windging ain't gonna cook no rice, but when "rice" is an investment of several dozens of thousands of dollars... it looks like probably no one in SJ is going to have one million of something to eat, anytime soon.
Guys.... We can't even get people to show up at the right time for shows at Imperial, where they have tickets in advance, with the time printed on them....Mathieu Benoit wrote:sean.boyer wrote:For example, a lot of promoters and show attenders alike complain about shows starting extremely late (sometimes as late as 12 on a weekend night). Yeah, that's crazy. But the reason they start so late is because only a handful of people bother to show up before midnight. Why? Because the shows don't start til midnight. And forever and ever. So, someone has to break the cycle. And stick with it. Not just try for a week and then go back to biz-as-usual. Have a show one Friday, advertise it as 9pm SHARP. No one will show up til 12. They'll miss the band, and the band will play to the walls and their girlfriends (except the drummer who obviously doesn't have a girlfriend). Then the next time, maybe they'll show up on time, because they KNOW that shows start at 9. Period. If not, tough titty man.
Exactly, what I've been saying forever...
You know I'm in..... and we start with conversations like this.Mathieu Benoit wrote:I'm staying in Saint John. I'm not planning on moving anywhere. So I'm invested in making this city better. Where do we start?
Christian LeBlanc wrote: one alternative is government funding for the arts,
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests