52Weeks Song Project - looking for criticism!

[Christian LeBlanc]

http://52weeksproject.blogspot.com/
Hey everybody! I already asked for help with this in my 'introduction' post, but due to the weekly nature of the project, I thought I'd make song announcements and solicit feedback here in this thread.

Earlier in the project, it was just me and my sequencer, since space limitations kept me away from my guitar, bass and keyboards most of the time. After a move, I now have a one-room home 'studio' (a computer and my instruments), and I've been trying to make them all work together more lately.

My latest tune is here: http://52weeksproject.blogspot.com/2009/10/44.html

I think I know what's right/wrong with it, but I'd still sure appreciate if anyone wants to play 'producer' and provide me with some feedback in any form (structure, melody, panning, eq, anything). Except for '22,' none of these songs are particularly 'close' to me, so feel free to rip away if you need to...but try to at least tell me something I did right, if you get too carried away with the slag ;)

Also, I realize I'm asking for free advice, out of both hobbyists and professionals. My point: thanks in advance for any time you spend on any of these!

[clinton]

http://www.arihest.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=98

[Christian LeBlanc]

http://www.jonathancoulton.com/category/thing-a-week/
There's about a million (or maybe...52??) projects like this out there. Most of them (like mine) don't charge anything. You get what you pay for ;)

[Malcolm Boyce]

My latest tune is here: http://52weeksproject.blogspot.com/2009/10/44.html

I can't seem to get this to play. Suggestions?

[Christian LeBlanc]

This should be a direct link to the song itself, that'll pop up in its own player:
http://www.garageband.com/mp3player?|pe ... aSgaVmzZGk
(you may have to copy and paste the entire link into your browser's address bar; this wasn't looking right when I tried a preview)

In case you were already trying that and it still wasn't working, this should take you to the garageband entry for the song, allowing you to download, listen, etc:
http://www.garageband.com/song?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSgaVmzZGk
(ditto on the copy and paste)

Thanks!

[Christian LeBlanc]

http://52weeksproject.blogspot.com/2009/11/45.html

I've posted song #45 onto my project blog. I hope you all realize how daunting it is to offer up something for criticism to you guys; I feel like a little kid with stick figures and paste looking for criticism from art instructors :P That being said, this project is sometimes a way for me to try out silly and stupid ideas that I wouldn't normally, so I shouldn't feel too embarassed about that...right? ...maybe?

Anyway, if anyone feels like going over there and listening, I'd like to hear anything you have to say. I'm being broad with my request, but even if you just tell me one or two things that stand out the most that should be improved, I'd be happy.

[Mathieu Benoit]

Hey Christian, nice to see some new faces. I can't view blog-type sites from my work (where I spend 90% of my Middle Audio time) but I hope to get to hear some of this stuff soon. You're right it takes a lot of balls to ask for criticism but it pays off to have some other opinions to bounce ideas off of.

I'll get back to you later this week though...

[Christian LeBlanc]

Thanks Matt, I appreciate your saying so; looking forward to it!

[macrae11]

So I'm finally getting around to listening to these. Shouldn't every work week be only 4 days long?

44. Cool tune, I'd like to hear what it would sound like with real drums. The drum machine starts to annoy me a bit, but I realize that's part of the process. Dug the synth sounds. Couldn't hear the vocal very well. You might want to try compressing it a bit more, that way it could still have roughly the same relative volume, but be more "upfront" sounding. You'd be surprised at how hard you can hit a good quality compressor and still sound good. I've leaned back just to check what a compressor was doing a few times and found it was pulling 20-25 dB's! Go STC-8! Sometimes with lesser compressors you can get away with chaining two or three compressors together, and having each of them just do a little work, to get a similar effect. Not suggesting every vocal should be smashed, but I think it would help this one poke through all the guitar and synth sounds. From a songwriting perspective, the only thing I really could wish for is if you were a little more daring with your melodies. It feels like your following the chord structure a little too closely for my liking. That works for a lot of songs, but this arrangement feels like it could be more "out there" which would be really fun. Also it sounds like you were singing sitting down. Could use a little more push in the delivery.

Very much dig the moog solo at the end. Don't know if the effects were part of the patch, or if they were added after, but it worked with the song really well.

Hope this isn't being too harsh, but as Matt will tell you, I'm kind of a jerk.

[Greg H.]

I actually really enjoyed 44, it's cool to see people that aren't strictly guitars and traditional piano/keyboard. I like me my synth.

[Christian LeBlanc]

Thanks, guys! Like I said pre-emptively before, I really appreciate the time it takes out of your day to listen to something and comment.

And Andrew, that wasn't harsh at all. I was expecting something along the lines of Malcolm's infamous 'Revenge' review*; your comments were quite generous.

Vocals have long been my nemesis (I can't easily quantize them, for one thing!), and I'll have to experiment with more compression next time...providing the rest of the song is busy enough. Or, just to try it out anyway! Good observation on the 'sitting down' delivery, as well; again, I should try pushing things out more next time.

Sadly, I can't take credit for the effects at the end, that was just part of the patch. Although I did have a double-delay going that I added myself, but I'm not sure how much that comes through in the mix. I hear it because I know that it's there, but...

The comment about wanting me to be more daring with the melodies: this is something I never even gave thought to before; coming up with melodies was just something I never had to work at before. I think I agree with you 100%. I mean, I'm not much of a fan of 'prog,' per se, but that's no excuse not to put more effort/imagination into things.

That being said: do you have a song or two I could go listen to, to kinda get an idea of what you mean?

Thanks again youse guys!

(*Malcolm's review wasn't that bad; that's just my good-natured attempt to get a comment or two from him!)

[Malcolm Boyce]

Hey Christian. I took some time to absorb "44" and here are some observations.

I agree with a lot of what Andrew mentioned. One thing about the drum sounds is the way the reverb is on the claps sound. For me, it just doesn't fit the tone of the mix. Everything else is so super dark and dry at first, and this super bright verb on one sound just jumps out at me, and not in a good way.

I know "loud" mixes are all the rage these days, but the track is super limited dynamics wise, especially from the 1:05 mark. The distortion is mucho audible. The way some of the mix elements are interacting, I'm wondering if you're monitoring through the limiter or mastering tool or whatever is "maximizing" your mix while mixing. If so, turn that off and get a mix happening before you start to tweak it up "mastering" level wise.

If you aren't monitoring through a limiter, post a version of 44 without the limiter on the mix as I'm sure it will be an ear opener for everyone on here who's checking this out.

So now a question... What is your setup for mixing?

[Greg H.]

Your lyrics for 21 are amazing for a science nerd like me! I mean, i'm more biology oriented, but who doesn't love hydrocarbons! In a song! Haha, I really want to record synth stuff now... To Fruity Loops Studio!!

[Malcolm Boyce]

So I went cruising through your list and came upon "05". This is far more balanced than "44" for me as far as tones go, and is more listenable due to the lack of crushing limiter on the mix.

One thing that jumps out at me on this one is the vocal tone. All the other elements mix tonally very nicely, but the uber effected vocal just doesn't fit. All the other sounds sit together with a nice bright appeal, and the vocal is just super dull in comparison. It sounds like it was added in by someone else after the fact.

What vocal mic did you/are you using? Something in a better vocal setup may do wonders for your ability to mix them afterward.

[Malcolm Boyce]

"20" is cool and has a more contemporary quality to it than some of your other work. I like it.

Once again, the verb on the drums doesn't match the rest of the tone of the track and probably would sound better dry-ish than what it is now.

One other note is the higher melody keys are missing the down beat in spots that they can't be that loose without attracting attention to themselves.

[Christian LeBlanc]

I'll make a longer post later on detailing my little home studio, some equipment, and mixing environment/habits, which will also explain some of what you guys are finding. I think it's useful to know for anyone else using the same type of equipment, so they can see any shortcomings that come from using it (I refer to attitude and habits just as much, if not more so, than equipment...craftsmen and tools, etc etc).

I did just want to say thanks again to everyone for listening, commenting and encouraging!

[clinton]

I have every intention of sitting down with a drink and my buddy Tucker and checking this out this evening. I browsed through some of the blog posting and read some of the lyrics and I really admire your drive man. Can't wait to hear the tracks...

[Crimson Chameleon]

#44 - I think other people may have commented about this song and suggested you explore the vocals more (i.e., don't sit down). I agree, the vocals don't step up enough compared to the size of the music and riffs. You have this big sound yet tiny vocals that seem to be overwhelmed by the music so to speak.

I notice other songs have a similar pattern: the vocals seem buried in the mix.

Another comment I would make is purely one of my own personal taste, and that is I would suggest you not be afraid to leave a bit of room or empty space in the songs. There doesn't need to be so much happening all the time. I have a Fine Arts background and one common feature of certain styles of painting was something referred to as "horror vacui," which means, literally, fear of the vacuum (as in empty space), which is in reference to the way painters would fill the entire canvas with images and not leave any empty spaces. A negative affect of this is that the viewer may be too overwhelmed with images and therefore unable to focus on the main point or message of the painting. I feel this can happen in music too. I wouldn't go so far as to use the cliche "less is more," but often times I feel "less is more appropriate" for getting a message across.

I would be interested in hearing #26, for instance, without the drum track. It sounds so beautiful at the start with just the strings.

I also agree with Malcolm's suggestion of more "dry" drums. I love a nice dry drum sound!

#17 sounds like a fun tune. I think it could sound nice with a real band: some funky acoustic guitar, tambourine, big fat walking bass, gang vocals. . . yeah! And some horns (like in National Anthem by radiohead).

As for your thoughts about #15: a long time ago I wrote something down on a piece of paper, and I no longer remember whether the words I wrote were my words or whether I heard someone else say them or whether I read them somewhere, but nonetheless, the sentence said, "a work of art: you push, and push, and push, and eventually the idea will pull you." I think it is important to have an idea of where you would like to go but you shouldn't be afraid of allowing for detours on the way.

[Christian LeBlanc]

Malcolm only asked about my mixing setup, but I'll go ahead and give more information than anyone wanted. As is my custom :)

I have a computer with 256 MB RAM, 1.4 GHz processor, running Cubase VST/32 5.0. I also have a SoundBlaster Audigy Platinum soundcard/interface, with inputs for 1/4", as well as rca cables in stereo.

My microphone's a "Realistic Cardioid Dynamic Microphone," 33-1071.

All my synths, I record direct into the computer.

I run my guitar through a few BOSS pedals, and then direct into the computer. (I'm not bragging about any of this! Just describing it as it is)

I listen to my mixes through a cheap pair of Jensen headphones (again, not trying to put on a false bravado about having a few crappy pieces of gear)

The heart of everything is my Yamaha QY-70 sequencer, which I did most of my composing on for the first half of my project. Almost all the drums on the project come from here. Now, the drums are set up with reverb already on; early in the project, I just didn't know any better. Over time, I realized there was too much reverb on the drum sets, and occasionally would remove it, but most of the time I just got too lazy to take it off :P

It's only been the past 6 songs or so (40-45) that I've really tried using distorted guitar alongside several synth sounds, and I'm still struggling with it, as you can hear; the guitar sounds take up too much room for everything else to fit together properly.

I'm not mastering things loud on purpose; the truth is, I'm still trying to figure out the difference between 'mixing' and 'mastering.' I know in a nutshell that mastering means making everything cohesive, but it's still a vague concept to me right now. Alls I know is that when I run my songs through certain eq settings on my mp3 player, they sound a whole lot better. And that's frustrating :)

[Malcolm Boyce]

My microphone's a "Realistic Cardioid Dynamic Microphone," 33-1071.

This is the beginning of the imbalance between your vocal sounds and the rest of your tracks. You will always have to fight with bright full range, direct synth and drum sounds, against a less than adequate vocal mic. You'd be amazed how much easier mixes would be for you just to use a mic more suitable for better sounding vocals.

I'm not mastering things loud on purpose; the truth is, I'm still trying to figure out the difference between 'mixing' and 'mastering.' I know in a nutshell that mastering means making everything cohesive, but it's still a vague concept to me right now.

It's obvious to me that you're just trying things out, and that's cool. I know your not crushing things on purpose because it's hit and miss on all your tracks. Once again, that's fine. It shows you're not thinking that works as a cure all like some do.

"Mixing" = Taking all your individually recorded tracks and balancing their levels, changing anything about them tonally, adding effects, and committing this to a "mix". Usually "stereo" but yes, sometimes "surround".

"Mastering" = The final tweaking of a printed mix. Possibly, but not always, EQ, Compression/Limiting. Tops and Tails (fades). For replication, reputable mastering engineers will prepare an error checked "master output" disc to be sent to a plant complete with documentation. As with anything, the most important tools in the mastering suite are the ears of the person tweaking. This is the single most misunderstood part of the process in the business today IMHO.

[Mathieu Benoit]

Since where discussing 44, I'll focus on that. First of all... i think the tune itself is quite interesting and actually very creative. As such I won't critique the music because I don't see the point, it's pretty neat.

Production-wise, I'd say that the mixing element is the biggest thing to consider here. Mixing is something that Andrew actually explained to me very well a while back. The basic idea is to view your mix as a 3D space. Everything should have it's own place in that space. It's not just a matter of setting levels. Panning is an obvious place to start since it affects what you perceive as left to right. EQing affects the perceived height of the sound, lower frequencies tend to give the listener the illusion that it's almost coming from beneath you, higher frequencies can seem to come from above. The other axis is depth, and that's where dynamic effects and reverbs/delays can give you control. More reverb/delay, the further away it sounds in the mix, whereas compression can make it seem closer.

If you picture a mix as a big sphere where every sound has it's place you'll start to get to the point where nothing is fighting anything else. Good mixes are the ones where everything is working to compliment everything else while not getting in the way. It's not just about setting levels on faders, it's an entire philosophy onto itself. Andrew was the first one to really explain it that way, and I'm getting better with it all the time.

i hope this post helps to give you a different perspective. It takes a lot of balls to open your creations to scrutiny. Keep up the good work. We're all here to learn.

[Christian LeBlanc]

http://52weeksproject.blogspot.com/2009/11/46.html

Song #46 is up. Per my blog description, I've taken what you've all said and did my best to try out your advice. Don't get all embarassed when I say nice things aboutcha there, either ;)

Malcolm: I like that definition of mastering. I've always eq'd and compressed as I went along, so I always considered that part of mixing (although I understand that both can happen at each stage anyway, further confusing the distinction).

And Matt, that mixing description is also spot-on. The only other place I've heard it described that way is in Bobby Owsinski's "The Mixing Engineer's Handbook," which I really really like and wonder if any of you have read (http://bobbyowsinski.com/The_Mixing_Eng ... dbook.html). Although I had forgotten about the z-axis of depth, and kind of confused it with the y-axis of height. Thank you for reminding me about this; it's advice that I know I should follow, but sometimes I get lazy and lose that focus.

EQ is a real stumbling block for me, but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. See, during the first half of the project, I was mostly just using my QY-70 sequencer, where all the sounds were pretty much eq'd already to work well with each other. As the project goes on, I clued in that I needed to get rid of that safety net, which explains why my songs (to me) start sounding worse instead of better over time :)

[Greg H.]

Hey Christian, if you like producing and making songs, as you obviously do haha, you should pick up the book "The Daily Adventures of Mixerman"

Look it up, check it out, quite a few of us have read it here on middleaudio.

Also, I know nearly nothing about audio production, but i'll tell you that I enjoyed your latest post. I liked the melody, and the staccato synth parts especially

[clinton]

Okay, been listening to this stuff tonight and a bit last night and I gotta applaud you man. I really expected it to be rushed stuff for the sake of sticking to the idea of 52 but there is some great melodies and some terrific songs in this. I've just played 28 and 27 twice cause they're so good. 39 was terric and 46 was prolly my fave thus far (the Gary Flanagan guest spot was sweet too "I listened twice").

Anyway, congrats. I'll post more when I've listened to the rest.

[clinton]

the vocals on 23 are great.